[bldg-sim] DOE2.2-How to link two different systems to the same thermal zone?

[hamnmegs at ozemail.com.au]

The latest version of DOE-2.2 (and I assume EQuest) allows the FC and SZRH systems to have "intermittent" indoor fan operation (ie. fans do not run when the zone is in deadband).  Check out the DOE22Vol6-NewFeatures40-44.PDF document in the DOE-2.2 downloads area of DOE2.COM.

I haven't tried this new capability, but it would appear to allow exactly what you would like when combined with the OA-FROM-SYSTEM - outdoor air system on a common schedule with zone FCUs independently scheduled.  You may need to play with the outdoor air system type as different systems respond differently to the no load dummy zone.

Regards,
Graham

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pedro Rodrigo" <pedromanuelrc at yahoo.es>
To: <bldg-sim at gard.com>
Cc: <pedromanuelrc at yahoo.es>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 5:59 AM
Subject: [bldg-sim] DOE2.2-How to link two different systems to the same
thermal zone?


> Thank you Mike, I agree the best way to solve the
> problem is to be creative.
>
> The building we are dealing with has a very random use
> (it has university departments, research laboratories
> and teachers offices), and we are trying to implement
> HVAC control strategies that may be able to change
> plant operation and setpoints taking into account the
> actual demand of the users. When we will get a
> validated model of the building, we will programme
> control algorithms and try them with changing
> end-users conditions.
>
> We are thinking in modeling for example five different
> fancoils so that if we want a 20% of use we will
> schedule one fancoil ON, if we want a 40% of use we
> will schedule two fancoils ON, ... The problem is that
> the number of thermal zones will be multiplied by five
> and that could affect the application performance.
>
> Do you think it's a good idea?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Pedro Rodrigo
> University of Jaen
>
>  --- Mike Tillou <miket at etcgrp.com> escribió:
> >
> >
> > I think Justins approach is the way to go in this
> > situation.  DOE 2.2 can't model what you want to do
> > exactly so you have to get creative.  Just remember
> > to calibrate the model carefully and be sure the
> > results match what you see in the field.
> >
> > The newest version of equest, v3.54, has changed how
> > the OA-FROM-SYSTEM keyword works so that OA
> > flowrates can be based on hourly zone requirements
> > (variable OA) rather than simply providing a fixed
> > volume of OA.
> >
> > As far as determining how to model the fan coils,
> > try doing some data logging to create a load profile
> > of when and how the various FC operate.  If there is
> > a central elec panel that all the fan coils  are
> > served from you could monitor how the load on the
> > panel changes throughout the day.  That should give
> > you a good indication of the percentage of fans that
> > run at any given time.
> >
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Mike Tillou, PE
> > etc Group, Inc
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: postman at gard.com [mailto:postman at gard.com] On
> > Behalf Of Justin Harrell
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:02 AM
> > To: bldg-sim at gard.com
> > Cc: pedromanuelrc at yahoo.es
> > Subject: [bldg-sim] DOE2.2-How to link two different
> > systems to the same thermal zone?
> >
> >
> > I have recently modeled (in eQUEST) a building with
> > a similar situation in which laboratory zones with
> > fume hood exhaust had a central make-up air system
> > in addition to multiple water-loop heat pump units.
> > The make-up air was 100% OA and conditioned to a
> > neutral temperature by a chilled water coil and gas
> > furnace.  In order to simulate this I created a
> > dummy zone, maintained at 75F supplied by the
> > make-up air system.  The laboratory zones were
> > specified with their own water-loop heat pumps and
> > zone thermostats.  In the WLHP systems I specified
> > OA-FROM-SYSTEM to come from the make-up air system
> > with a fixed CFM because the make-up air had a
> > constant volume supply.  This forced the WLHPs to
> > have their fans ON at all times, so I moved the WLHP
> > fan energy into the cooling and heating EIRs so that
> > the fans could run for free for the OA.  In the real
> > building, the WLHP fans run only when the compressor
> > is running. This may not have been the best
> > solution, but it gave pretty good results.
> >
> > Perhaps you could do something similar by moving the
> > reheat coil energy either into the central system,
> > or into the FC systems, and using the OA-FROM-SYSTEM
> > keyword.  As far as I know, there is no way to
> > simulate this situation directly.  The best
> > work-around will depend on how your systems are
> > controlled and what ECMs you want to simulate.
> >
> > Justin Harrell
> > Southern Illinois University Carbondale
> >
> > ---------Included Message----------
> > >Date: 28-Mar-2005 05:48:25 -0600
> > >From: "Pedro Rodrigo" <pedromanuelrc at yahoo.es>
> > >Reply-To: <pedromanuelrc at yahoo.es>
> > >To: <bldg-sim at gard.com>
> > >Subject: [bldg-sim] DOE2.2-How to link two
> > different systems to the
> > >same thermal zone?
> > >
> > >Hello all!
> > >I belong to a team of researchers in the University
> > of
> > >Jaen, Spain. It would be very useful for us if you
> > >could
> > >tell us your opinion about a little DOE2-related
> > >question.
> > >We are simulating a real (yet existing) multi-zone
> > >building in eQuest. The problem is that we have two
> > >kinds of terminal units operating together in each
> > >zone: i) a two-pipe air handler unit (with outside
> > air
> > >dampers) and ii) several two-pipe fan-coils. The
> > AHU
> > >provides a primary flow of 21ºC set conditioned
> > air.
> > >Users in different rooms served by the same AHU,
> > >operate on/off and set room temperature via the
> > >individual fan-coils.
> > >We have realized that it´s not possible to link two
> > >different systems (i.e. SZR + FC) to the same
> > thermal
> > >zone in DOE2 (only one is allowed). How could we
> > model
> > >this building without increasing too much the
> > number
> > >of thermal zones? And how could we schedule the
> > >operation of the individual fancoils, for example
> > >20%-On, 40%-On, 60$-On,...? (We have up to 50
> > fan-coil
> > >units working together with a single AHU).
> > >Thanks in advance,
> > >Regards,
> > >Pedro Rodrigo
> > >University of Jaen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >______________________________________________
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