[bldg-sim] App G 2004 question

[William Bahnfleth]

Modeling the building in the specified orientations and averaging 
gives an orientation-neutral baseline.

Appendix G has been developed with substantial input from experts at 
PNNL and after discussions with USGBC.  Glad to hear that modelers 
are ignoring whatever they don't understand or find inconvenient.

Bill Bahnfleth
Member, ECB Subcommittee

At 09:42 PM 1/23/2006, Peter Alspach wrote:
>  A bit of a throw-back to the old 1989 version then?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kevin Warren [mailto:kevin at warren-energy.com]
>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:46 PM
>To: peter.alspach at arup.com; bldg-sim at gard.com
>Subject: RE: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question
>
>Peter,
>
>I believe the intent is to give you a way to get some savings from
>orienting your building with an eye toward savings. If you pay attention
>to the sun in your design (passive solar and/or daylighting), you should
>get some savings relative to the average of the rotated orientations.
>Similarly, you could get a penalty if you have too much west-facing
>glass.
>
>I'm not sure how strictly this provision is being enforced. Most of the
>modelers I have spoken to ignore it, but that is a very unscientific
>sample.
>These modelers may not be submitting to USGBC.
>
>For a utility incentive program, it often does not make sense to do this
>rotation. Those incentive programs typically care about the savings from
>incremental changes to the design, particularly those changes that carry
>an incremental cost. I'm not sure how one would determine an incremental
>cost for your building's orientation, so it is not a factor that would
>typically be eligible.
>
>Kevin Warren, P.E., CEM, LEED AP
>Warren Energy Engineering, LLC
>(610) 255-3798 ph
>(610) 255-3406 f
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bldg-sim at gard.com [mailto:bldg-sim at gard.com]On Behalf Of Peter
>Alspach
>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:04 PM
>To: bldg-sim at gard.com
>Subject: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question
>
>
>Anyone out there know the source of why one would be required to
>simulate a building in an orientation that it is not in? This doesn't
>really make any sense to me - am I missing something?
>
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bldg-sim at gard.com [mailto:bldg-sim at gard.com] On Behalf Of Rohini
>Brahme
>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:13 PM
>To: bldg-sim at gard.com
>Subject: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question
>
>I have a question about the Appendix G in 90.1, 2004.
>In Table G3.1 the baseline building is to be simulated as follows:
>" Orientation. The baseline building performance shall be generated by
>simulating the building with its actual orientation and again after
>rotating the entire building 90, 180, 270 degrees, then averaging the
>results. The building shall be modeled so that it does not shade
>itself."
>What does --- the building shall be modeled so that it does not shade
>itself ---- mean?
>Does it mean that if there is, for example, an L shaped building (which
>self shades), it has to be modeled as square? rectangle?
>Any thoughts on this appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>- Rohini
>
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_________________________________________________

William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, Fellow ASHRAE

Professor of Architectural Engineering
Director, Indoor Environment Center

The Pennsylvania State University
104 Engineering Unit A
University Park, PA 16802 USA

voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789
e-mail:  wbahnfleth at psu.edu
www.arche.psu.edu/faculty/WBahnfleth/
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec/
_________________________________________________


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