[BLDG-SIM] LEED and evap chillers

Michael Rosenberg Michael.Rosenberg at state.or.us
Wed Jul 12 10:22:47 PDT 2006


Paul,

You are correct, that the chiller is supposed to be water cooled, and I
also agree that it could be stated more clearly. At the recent ASHRAE
90.1 meeting there was language introduced to clarify this to
specifically state "water-cooled" in the chiller description table. This
should show up in the 90.1, 2007 version of Appendix G.

Mike



Michael Rosenberg
Oregon Department of Energy
625 Marion St. N.E.
Salem, OR 97301-3742
Phone : (503) 373-7809
Fax: (503) 373-7806

>>> "Paul Riemer" <PaulR at TWGI.com> 7/12/2006 10:02:20 AM >>>

Table G3.1.1.A of 90.1-2004 uses building type & size to specify base
system parameters including CAV or VAV and direct expansion or chilled
water cooling.  So I would first confirm if your base building will
have
a chiller before addressing chiller type. 

As for chiller type, I have not found it is explicitly stated or
mapped
so I have been interpreting the Heat Rejection Requirement in
G3.1.3.11
to mean that whenever Table G3.1.1.A requires a base with chilled
water
cooling that the base is a water cooled chiller with an axial vane
cooling tower.  I welcome any  corrections or other interpretations.

Also I learned from Bldg-Sim responses this week, ASHRAE has revised
Table G3.1.1.A in an addendum but I am not if the USGBC/LEED
acknowledge
addendums or if those would have to be submitted as CIR's.

Paul Riemer
THE WEIDT GROUP
952.938.1588
PaulR at twgi.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of
Mitchell
Dec
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:22 AM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com 
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] LEED and evap chillers


For my project, I was using LEED 2.1 guidelines. However, because of
the
changes to LEED from 2.1 to 2.2 you may need to submit a 2.2 CIR
giving
reference to the 2.1 CIR as part of your rationale.
 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Farhan Khatri [mailto:FKhatri at arnoldandosheridan.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:17 AM
To: Mitchell Dec; BLDG-SIM at gard.com 
Subject: RE: [BLDG-SIM] LEED and evap chillers


Mitch/Wade and Team,

Is it also true for LEED 2.2 (PRM method app. G 90.1 2004) I cannot
find
a reference to 150 Ton exception in LEED 2.2 manual. 

Searched for CIRs on LEED 2.2 regarding the 150 Ton allowance but
there
were none. However, did find the CIR on LEED 2.1 regarding the 150 Ton
allowance for 'air-cooled'. It is also mentioned under LEED 2.1 EMP
(energy modeling protocol). 

So how does it apply to LEED 2.2 or it doesn't.

Thanks,
Farhan Khatri, P.E. LEED AP.
Arnold & O'Sheridan, Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of
Mitchell
Dec
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:38 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com 
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] LEED and evap chillers

Wade,

I had a similar question submitted to the USGBC and it was deemed a
water-cooled system. However, if the capacity is less than 150 tons,
there was a CIR allowing the use of an air-cooled systems.


 
Mitchell J. Dec
Energy Analyst
 <http://www.glumac.com/>
  _____  

320 SW Washington, Suite 200
Portland, OR 97204-2640
T.  503.227.5280  F. 503.274.7674
Direct: 503.345.6283

Thinking. Inside the building.
http://www.glumac.com/ 


-----Original Message-----
From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com]On Behalf Of
wmclaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:11 AM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com 
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] LEED and evap chillers


This may have been covered in a previous thread, but I'm away from my
email archive at the moment.

Regarding LEED modeling with respect to the ASHRAE ECB/DEC method:
Does
anyone have a sense of whether an evaporatively-cooled chiller is
considered air- or water-cooled?   It makes a considerable difference
to
the modeling of the ECB (base case), and thus to the evaluated
savings.

Thanks,

Wade McLaughlin
Demand Management Institute

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