[Bldg-sim] simulation software

Harvey Bryan Harvey.Bryan at asu.edu
Fri Dec 21 09:15:09 PST 2007


Renee,
 
I don't believe eQuest and Trace are dated, REVIT is very expensive and has a steep learning curve, IES-VE uses the British Admittance method which is very foreign to alot of U.S. M&E's and EnergyPlus is still painfully slow especially for large parametric runs. In fact, eQuest has just been integrated in a BIM program called dProfiler from Beck Technology. I've seen a demo a few weeks ago and was very impressed. Like the Energizer Bunny, that old DOE-2 engine keeps going and going.
 
Harvey Bryan
Arizona State University

________________________________

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org on behalf of Renee Azerbegi
Sent: Fri 12/21/2007 9:46 AM
To: Mike Roberts; Karen Walkerman; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] simulation software



I think eQuest and TRACE are becoming dated with new architectural programs such as REVIT, ARCHICAD, etc. that most architects are using that can be used with IES-VE, Energy Plus, and other programs. I'd be curious about any opinions on the success or failure of those who have taken that next step of taking a 3D archicad or revit model and imported into IESVE or Energy Plus and how easy it is for architects to produce a compatible file for modelers to use as they have to do a few things to make it compatitable for moderlers to use.


Renée
Renée Azerbegi, CEM, LEED-AP
ambient energy - solar & sustainable design solutions
t 303.278.1532 | f 303.278.8533 | c 303.885.2695 | renee at ambient-e.com | ambient-e.com  (updated website!)

Don't  Google....... Blackle  blackle.com


-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Mike Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:15 PM
To: 'Karen Walkerman'; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] simulation software

Now this is the beginning of a very useful thread!

Steve Playo pointed out some important things to consider in choosing an
energy simulation program.  I also agree with Karen Walkerman in her defense
of eQUEST.  I, too, would use it in preference to TRACE in most cases.

What too many people do not realize is energy simulation is a very
complicated and detailed process.  Far too many assume the eQUEST wizard or
the TRACE entry method will allow them to simulate a building for LEED or
whatever without going through the agony of learning what the building is
doing or how the program models it.  It just isn't going to happen.

I have been doing energy simulation for 30 years.  I started with Cal-ERDA
1.3 (predecessor to DOE-2.2, the eQUEST calculation engine) on a time shared
main frame computer.  After a couple years of expensive time sharing, I
helped my employer install DOE-2.1 on a DEC System 10 main frame.  In 1986,
I left that employer to do energy simulation for my own company.  Over the
years, I have used DOE, TRACE, BLAST, and a number of other simulation
programs.  I have taken training courses in most of the ones I have used and
assisted in training courses for eQUEST.  The point is that even now, I
learn something new on every project.  I used to say that running DOE took
the equivalent of a five hour college course.  Now, I think it is the
equivalent of a college degree.

Don't worry about how cheap the program is to obtain.  Whatever it costs
will pale compared to the cost of learning how to use it.  Take the training
for whatever program you are going to use and then expect to spend a lot
more time on the learning curve.

This is not to discourage using energy simulation.  Energy simulation is a
wonderful tool.  It is easy to come up with more than enough energy and
dollar savings to offset the additional engineering hours.  And it will only
become more important in the future.  It's just not as easy as some people
would like to think.

Mike Roberts


-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Karen Walkerman
Sent: 12/18/2007 11:49 AM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] simulation software


Hi All,

I too have spent many frustrating nights trying to figure out what is wrong
with my eQuest models.  After all the brow-beating, I have always come to
the conclusion that something was wrong with my inputs, not with the
software, and been able to remedy the issue.  Not true for Trace700.  I
spent about a year with Trace, found a number of bugs (some of which the
company is now fixing), got frustrated with the long (hour-plus) simulation
times, and limitation to modeling 4 alternatives in one file.  Yes it's nice
that there's someone to call when you have questions, but they don't always
know the answer.  I had people telling me to check my fan energy inputs when
the odd data I was getting had nothing to do with fans.

In addition, I often have trouble with data corruption when editing
templates.  Granted, templates are a great idea and I wish eQuest had a
similar option, but when your inputs are corrupted and you have to go
through and check room by room to see what remains...  not a fun process.

Trace700 has no visual feedback for window, wall, room or roof geometry.
This can be a pain.

I also believe that their water source heat-pump system does not share
energy in the loop properly.  I created a test-file, consisting of two
10X10X10 rooms.  One room had a large cooling load, the other a large
heating mode.  Neither had any external surface areas.  The total energy
required to condition the spaces should have been much lower for heat pumps
than for fain coils... but, they were practically identical.  I sent the
model to Trace, and they argued that this was not a fair test of their
software????

So... though eQuest can be frustrating at times, I gladly use it over Trace.

~Karen~
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