[BLDG-SIM] LEED Building Orientation

Edward.A.Decker at jci.com Edward.A.Decker at jci.com
Thu Nov 29 15:58:46 PST 2007


Can you not apply various fenestrations and shading to the model without 
having to change its orientation? For an existing building, including LEED 
EB, what additional benefit could be gained by rotating the model since 
you cannot change the orientation?
_____________________________________________
Edward A. Decker




"Leonard Sciarra" <leonard_sciarra at gensler.com> 
Sent by: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
11/29/2007 06:18 PM
Please respond to
leonard_sciarra at gensler.com


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Subject
[BLDG-SIM] LEED Building Orientation






This is true, however, even with an existing building, you as the 
designer/engineer have the option of "working" the facades and applying 
appropriate fenestration, shading, etc... you can still make good/bad 
decisions and the fact that your footprint is fixed should not give the 
design team a waiver from the fact that the sun still rises in the east 
and sets in the west.  In fact it may be a benefit if perhaps your 
building is shaded on the west by itself.
 
Leonard Sciarra, AIA, LEED ap
312.577.6580 (Dir)
G E N S L E R | Architecture & Design Worldwide
30 West Monroe Street
Chicago IL, 60603
312.456.0123
leonard_sciarra at gensler.com 
 

From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of Ross-Bain, 
Jeff
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:40 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Cc: keith_lane at g-g-d.com
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] LEED Building Orientation

Here is my question to and response from the USGBC regarding this issue:
 
 
Dear LEED Info,
 
There has been a lot of chat on this item and I wonder if there is a USGBC 
position ? I found no reference to this in the CIR?s:
 
Do existing buildings undergoing renovation require the four-point compass 
orientation analysis?
 
 
 
Jeffrey,
 
If the existing building being renovated is pursuing LEED-NC rather than 
LEED-EB, then it would indeed be required to undergo the specified 
analysis.  This analysis is used to establish the baseline for energy 
performance using the ASHRAE standard.  LEED doesn?t have any specific 
exemptions for existing buildings in this requirement, but if ASHRAE has 
some kind of exemption, we will honor that.
 
 
So I guess the question then becomes an interpretation of the Appendix G 
(Table G3.1 (f)) comment for existing buildings. Rotate or not?
 
My take has always been that new buildings have the option to consider 
orientation but existing buildings cannot be re-oriented so rotating the 
model does not really prove anything. 
 
Any 90.1 code committee members or others out there have an 
interpretation?
 
Regards,
Jeffrey G. Ross-Bain, PE, LEED 
Smith Dalia Architects 
621 North Ave NE 
Suite C-140 
Atlanta, GA, 30308 
404-892-2443 
www.smithdalia.com 
P Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless you 
really need to.

From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of Neuhauser, 
Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:31 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Cc: keith_lane at g-g-d.com
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] LEED Building Orientation
 
I am not the authority, Keith, but I believe that your interpretation 
(that existing buildings do not get rotated in the baseline) is consistent 
with the intent of Appendix G.  In new construction, the decisions 
regarding building orientation will affect performance and that 
performance should be measured against the baseline (although, there are 
cases, such as a building that adjoins buildings to either side, where 
rotating the baseline through all four orientations does not make sense). 
If you?re improving an existing building, the existing conditions of 
building enclosure components, including orientation, are an appropriate 
baseline.  When we apply Appendix G to existing buildings, we have also 
found that ?existing building envelopes? sometimes needs to be parsed into 
existing building envelope components.  For example, in a mill rehab, the 
bearing walls may be serviceable and appropriately modeled ?as is? in the 
baseline, but missing windows or windows that are clearly not serviceable 
we model as per the ASHRAE minimum compliance.
 
You should note, also, that an addendum to the standard has removed the 
provision in the table under G3.1, 5c to distribute windows uniformly in 
horizontal bands across the four orientations.  That should make all of 
our lives easier.
 
Regards,
Ken Neuhauser, M.Arch, MSc.Arch, LEED AP
Architectural Project Manager
Conservation Services Group, Inc.
40 Washington Street
Westborough, MA 01581
Ph. 508 836-9500 ext. 13226
Fax 508 836-3181
www.csgrp.com 
 
 
 

From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of Keith Lane
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:40 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] LEED Building Orientation
 
I am modeling an existing building for Energy & Atmosphere Credit 1: 
Optimize Energy Performance. In LEED and table G3.1 No. 5(a) of ASHREA 
Standard 90.1-2004, it states that ?the baseline building performance 
shall be generated by simulating the building with its actual orientation 
and again after rotating the entire building 90, 180, 270 degrees, then 
averaging the results?. However table G3.1 No. 5(f) of ASHREA Standard 
90.1-2004 states: ?for existing building envelopes, the baseline building 
design shall reflect existing conditions prior to any revisions that are 
part of the scope of work being evaluated.? Would this mean that you do 
not need to simulate the building for the four orientations? It just 
doesn?t seem to make sense to simulate the building in such a manner if it 
is existing. I am new energy modeling for LEED credit and sincerely 
appreciate any assistance.
 
Thank you,
 
Keith Lane, LEED AP
Mechanical Engineer
Garcia.Galuska.DeSousa
Consulting Engineers                     Inc. 
370 Faunce Corner Road, Dartmouth, MA 02747 
p.508.998.5700                          f. 508.998.0883
 
 
 
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