[BLDG-SIM] Traction Elevators and LEED Baseline

Ramirez, Bob Bob.Ramirez at itron.com
Sat Nov 17 08:54:49 PST 2007


There was some discussion on this group about elelvators awhile back, so you should check the archives.  Also, one other signigicant (and often difficult) issue to consider:  What is the true "baseline" for the application that you are considering?  There are a variety of elevator technologies out there, and the one that you are considering as the energy efficient technology may already in fact be considered standard practice for that application.
 
Bob
 
Bob Ramírez, P.E.
Bob.Ramirez at Itron.com
Itron, Inc., Consulting & Analysis Services <https://owa.itron.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.itron.com/capabilities/analysis_consulting_services.asp> 
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________________________________

From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com on behalf of Erik Dyrr
Sent: Fri 11/16/2007 10:05 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Cc: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] Traction Elevators and LEED Baseline


I was also just in the process of developing a calculation. I sent an email to Otis Elevator inquiring if they had worked through this already, but recieved no reply.  There is an interesting ACEEE paper on elevator energy consumption and efficiency at h ttp://www.aceee.org/buildings/coml_equp/elevators.pdf <http://www.aceee.org/buildings/coml_equp/elevators.pdf> 
I would be interested to see how anyone has calculated savings or collaboration if you are working through it now.
 
Erik Dyrr
KEMA


 
On 11/16/07, Miller, Nathan <nathan.miller at stantec.com> wrote: 

	I have submitted a LEED-CS v2.0 project for review where we took credit
	for elevator efficiency (I haven't received any comments back yet, so I 
	don't know if they will go for it). That being said, I also review LEED
	EAc1 submissions, on behalf of the USGBC, and would likely allow such an
	ECM as long as the calculation methodology was clearly laid out and well 
	supported.
	
	I used manufacturer data (horsepower ratings) for the traction elevator
	and compared to a "typical" hydraulic elevator. I couldn't find any
	reputable source to create a partial load schedule for the motor, so I 
	applied the appropriate elevator schedule (in this case it was an
	office) from the schedule tables that can be found at the end of the
	Appendix G section of the ASHRAE 90.1-2004 User's Manual. I also put the 
	elevators on their own electric meter so that I could easily sort out
	that data. It certainly isn't a highly-refined calculation, but
	shouldn't be any worse than the estimate you would have to make to
	account for elevator energy in the first place.
	
	I've heard there are some programs that specifically model elevator
	systems (more for optimizing usage than energy), but I haven't used any
	of them. Anybody know if these are a more accurate way to estimate 
	elevator energy usage?
	
	I would also recommend reading some of the papers published by Lutfi
	Al-Sharif (an engineer or professor from the UK, I believe), who is one
	of the foremost experts in elevator energy usage, as far as I can tell. 
	
	Nathan Miller
	Mechanical Engineer
	Stantec
	
	-----Original Message-----
	From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of Jon 
	Evans
	Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 3:13 PM
	To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
	Subject: [BLDG-SIM] Traction Elevators and LEED Baseline
	
	Does anyone have experience using the exceptional calculation method 
	(ASHRAE
	90.1 Appendix G Section G2.5) to justify traction elevators as an
	efficiency improvement over hydraulic elevators?
	
	I searched the LEED CIR rulings and didn't find much on the exceptional
	calculation method or changing the process load for elevator upgrades. 
	(Appendix G Table G3.1 line 12 says that the elevator load must stay the
	same).
	
	Thanks!
	
	-Jon
	
	
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