[BLDG-SIM] [POSSIBLE SPAM] Geothermal Heat Pumps

Xiaobing Liu XLiu at climatemaster.com
Thu Nov 15 22:12:37 PST 2007


John:

Have been involved in the Geothermal Heat Pump (GHP) industry for about 8 years, I think I can understand your feeling and want to share with you some information and my personal opinion about Geothermal heat pump.

First, different from TRANE who have broad product lines, there are several manufacturers in the US who are dedicated in producing water-source and geothermal heat pumps, including ClimateMaster (www.climatemaster.com), Water Furnace (http://waterfurnace.com), and Florida Heat Pump (http://www.fhp-mfg.com/). I believe you can get engineering level information about GHP from any of these companies. In addition, there are also lots of information about GHP, including engineering manual and list of certified designer/driller,  available at International Ground Source Heat Pump Association (http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/). More information of GHP related research, incentives, contractors, tools, and case studies have been collected and available through the website of Geothermal Heat Pump Consortium (http://www.geoexchange.org/).

Second, eQUEST/DOE-2.2 has been enhanced in the GHP system simulation since version 3.6 (http://doe2.com/download/DOE-22/DOE22Vol6-NewFeatures_44e2.pdf). Different from Trace, eQUEST/DOE-2.2 actually simulates the performance of various ground heat exchanger using an advanced and widely accepted algorithm. It can predict the long term performance of GHP systems, which is critical in designing GHP for buildings with unbalanced cooling and heating loads. As an add-on feature, a performance data/curve library of water-to-air heat pump can be installed and accessed directly from eQUEST wizard interface (http://www.climatemaster.com/index/equest). 

Third, I believe the reason TRANE stop producing GHP products is not because of GHP technology itself but the overwhelming obstacles in the market. Just as you described, the practitioners in the HVAC industry are not motivated to try "new" technology, especially when energy is cheap. 

BUT, in my opinion, the cheap energy has its hidden price and the cheap energy era may be gone forever. Listen to the news about climate change and global warming, look at the climbing oil price, feel the suffering of our mother nature... We know we need make some change to make our world sustainable. If, previously, the goal of HVAC design is to size equipment large enough for the peak loads, today's goal of the HVAC design should be providing comfort built environment in the most energy efficient way and with least impact on our environment. Sizing an equipment to meet the peak loads can be done with just some "rule of thumb", but it is much more challenging to design the most energy efficient system. It requires comprehensive knowledge of the building, occupants, and HVAC systems. In most cases, we have to rely on sophisticated computer program to facilitate the design. However, look at the tremendous changes in our world, shouldn't we, practitioners in HVAC industry, also make some change in our work? As Terry E. Townsend, the former president of ASHRAE, addressed: "A sustainable future (is) the ASHRAE promise".

GHP, the proven most energy efficient way to condition our living space, should be given more attention, support, and credits. The GHP industry are willing to and working hard to help practitioners overcome the obstacles in the design and implementation of GHP.

Best regards,

Xiaobing Liu, Ph. D. 
Systems Engineering Manager 
Climatemaster, Ltd 
Tel: (405) 745-6000 Ext. 335 
E-mail: xliu at climatemaster.com <mailto:xliu at climatemaster.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com]On Behalf Of JRR
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:21 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Cc: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] [POSSIBLE SPAM] Geothermal Heat Pumps


John wrote:

After multiple Emails and long distance phone calls TRANE seems to be 
coming apart at
the seams.  There was no responsible central contact for engineering 
level information ....
ANYWHERE.  They seem to be following the hard / Microsoft sales model  
"contact
your local dealer"   beyond that a blank wall.  What if your local 
dealer doesn't want to
try anything NEW ??   In the Washington DC region  contractors just want 
to do the
"same old" grab the money and run.........  Have you ever seen a 
contractor that would
sign  a patent non-disclosure agreement ??  I haven't.  The live person 
on the phone from
TRANE never told me if they still had commercial ground source HPs;  had 
water source HPs
residential or commercial........ they just said  NO.   Now I may have 
to dump.
 3 yr old air handlers -- practically new  -- for no tech support......



Zoeteman, Mark R. wrote:

>I checked with our Trane rep and he indicated only residential heat
>pumps are affected:
>
>"We do still take orders and manufacture our heat pumps.  But, we did
>stop manufacturing our residential line."
>
>
>Mark Zoeteman, FTC&H
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of JRR
>Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:09 PM
>To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
>Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM] [BLDG-SIM] Geothermal Heat Pumps
>Importance: Low
>
>Hi,
>
>I was looking at several websites the last week to survey geothermal
>heat pumps for a simulation project.
>
>As a result I discovered that TRANE quit taking orders for Geothermal
>heat pumps on September 30 this year.  As soon as the standing orders
>are filled they will shut down production permanently.  
>
>Don't get caught modeling something that is no longer available.
>
>
>John R Ross III PE
>Westwind Corporation
>Vienna, VA  22182-1958
>energy.wwind at cox.net
> 
>
>
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