[Bldg-sim] Spam:Re: LEED modeling requirements forexistingbuildings

Carol Gardner gems at spiritone.com
Thu Aug 21 08:33:00 PDT 2008


I thought that the rotation requirement was gone in any case.
Carol

Jeff Ross-Bain wrote:
>
> I asked the USGBC for an interpretation (not an official CIR) on the 
> need for rotating an existing building for modeling purposes and the 
> response was that the existing building does in fact need to be rotated.
>
> This is their response (the “specified analysis” refers to building 
> rotation of an existing building):
>
> If the existing building being renovated is pursuing LEED-NC rather 
> than LEED-EB, then it would indeed be required to undergo the 
> specified analysis. This analysis is used to establish the baseline 
> for energy performance using the ASHRAE standard. LEED doesn’t have 
> any specific exemptions for existing buildings in this requirement, 
> but if ASHRAE has some kind of exemption, we will honor that.
>
> Regards,
>
> */Jeffrey G. Ross-Bain, PE, LEED/*
> Smith Dalia Architects
> 621 North Ave NE
> Suite C-140
> Atlanta, GA, 30308
> 404-892-2443
> www.smithdalia.com <http://www.smithdalia.com>
>
> P Build Green...Save Time
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael 
> Tillou
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:15 AM
> *To:* 'Jay Keazer'
> *Cc:* 'Eric O'Neill'; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Spam:Re: LEED modeling requirements 
> forexistingbuildings
>
> Jay,
>
> It is my understanding that that is the correct interpretation.
>
> However, I don't think Eric's interpretation that the baseline 
> rotation requirement does not apply to existing buildings is correct. 
> Let me explain why I disagree.
>
> Requirement f in Part 5 of Table 3.1 refers specifically to the 
> //baseline building design// (note the italics which signify that a 
> phrase or word is defined in Section 3 of the Standard) while 
> Requirement a in Part 5 of Table 3.1 refers specifically to the 
> //baseline building performance// (again in italics). The //baseline 
> building design// is not the same as the //baseline building 
> performance// and therefore Requirement f. cannot supercede 
> Requirement a in any case.
>
> One last comment about the equal window distribution. ASHRAE 90.1-2004 
> Addendum a removes the equal distribution requirement for windows in 
> the baseline. If you're working on a LEED project I suggest you 
> consider adopting Addendum a to avoid this requirement. USGBC has 
> allowed the use of ASHRAE 90.1-2004 addenda. If you do decide to adopt 
> Addendum a remember that USGBC requires that you incorporate all the 
> changes included in the Addenddum. Addendum a has a total of eight 
> changes to Appendix G, most important of which are the changes to the 
> calculation of the baseline HVAC system types.
>
> regards,
>
> Mike
>
> Michael Tillou, PE, LEED
>
> Tillou Engineering, LLC
>
> Williamstown, MA 01267
>
> P: 413-458-9870 C: 413-652-1087
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Jay Keazer
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:42 AM
> *To:* Eric O'Neill; Mark Sorensen; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Spam:Re: LEED modeling requirements for 
> existingbuildings
>
> What about the baseline envelope assemblies? As an example I have an 
> existing building where the windows are being replaced and insulation 
> is being sprayed on the outside of a built up roof.
>
> In the same column of Table G3.1, requirement (b) states that “Opaque 
> assemblies used for /alterations/ shall conform with 5.1.3” and 
> requirement (c) states that “The fenestration areas for envelope 
> /alterations/ shall reflect the limitations on area, U-factor, and 
> SHGC as described in 5.1.3.”
>
> 5.1.3 states that “Alterations to the building envelope shall comply 
> with the requirements of Section 5 for insulation, air leakage, and 
> fenestration *applicable to those specific portions of the building 
> that are being altered*.”
>
> My interpretation is: because the windows and roof are being altered, 
> I have to use the appropriate U-factors and SHGC from the tables for 
> the baseline windows and roof. However, the walls are not being 
> altered, so I can use the existing construction for the baseline walls.
>
> Does anybody have a different interpretation?
>
> Thanks!
>
> */Jay Keazer, EI/*
>
> Energy Engineer
>
> TME, Inc.
>
> 2039 N Green Acres Road
>
> Fayetteville, AR 72703
>
> ph 479.521.8634
>
> fax 479.521.1014
>
> _jkeazer at tmecorp.com <mailto:email at tmecorp.com>___
>
> _www.tmecorp.com <http://www.tmecorp.com/>_
>
> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Eric 
> O'Neill
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:16 PM
> *To:* Mark Sorensen; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Spam:Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED modeling requirements for existing 
> buildings
>
> Mark,
> Under ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G, Table G3.1, Section 5, "Baseline 
> Building Performance" column, requirement (f) (take a breath…) it 
> states that "For existing building envelopes, the baseline building 
> design shall reflect existing conditions prior to any revisions that 
> are part of the scope of work being evaluated". So the rotation 
> doesn't apply to you. Also, I interpret that to mean the windows don't 
> need to be redistributed either. Hope that helps!
>
> */Eric O'Neill/*
> Mechanical Engineer
> Energy Division - Michaels Engineering
>
> 811 Monitor St. Ste 100
> La Crosse, WI 54603
> v: 608-785-1900 x521
> f: 608-784-2270
> elo at michaelsengineering.com
> http://www.michaelsengineering.com
>
> *From:* Mark Sorensen [mailto:DEnergyServices at comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:40 AM
> *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Bldg-sim] LEED modeling requirements for existing buildings
>
> When modeling an existing building, is required to calculate the 
> proposed building window to wall ratio and equally redistribute the 
> glass area to the baseline building and prepare models for the four 
> rotation exposures? My take is that for a proposed existing building, 
> there is not an opportunity to position the building to the most 
> advantageous exposure and you could end up being penalized if the 
> baseline energy use is averaged for all rotations but I have not been 
> able to find any reference in LEED or ASHRAE to support this. I’m not 
> sure what to think about equal redistribution of the glass areas.
>
> Mark Sorensen
> Diversified Energy Services
> 5890 E. Pontaluna Rd.
> Fruitport, MI 49415
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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