[Bldg-sim] District Thermal System

Paul Riemer Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com
Wed Aug 6 05:57:53 PDT 2008

>From the context of the paragraph, I personally believe and kind of hope the intent of the section you quoted section is primarily that:
- the energy accounting should be based on the annual efficiency of the entire plant as it will be operated
But also that:
- the energy accounting does not need to include the energy consumption of the entire plant
- the energy modeling does not need to include discrete modeling of every component in the plant

Notice that while Appendix G dictates number, size, type, and efficiency of baseline equipment, this document offers defaults that are simple system level efficiency values.

While the document anticipates refinement and invites feedback to leedinfo at usgbc.org, my emails have received only administrative acknowledgments after 8 weeks.

So if you cannot confidently decide how to apply this document to your project, you probably need to do a CIR.  They are not free but neither is time spent responding to the reviewers, remodeling, or both.

Good luck,

Paul Riemer

-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of May Xu
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:20 PM
To: Jeff Haberl; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] District Thermal System

Hi Jeff,

Thanks, I found many useful information there, it is a very good
resource! However, I didn't get relative answers regarding my question,
which is about the simulation rule updated by USGBC recently about the
district thermal system. Could anyone give me any suggestions?

Thanks a lot!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Haberl [mailto:jeffhaberl at tees.tamus.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:36 AM
To: May Xu; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] District Thermal System


The Laboratory has spent quite a bit of time modeling the thermal plant
on the Texas A&M Campus with good success. Unfortunately, we ended up
using some rather complex, interacting loop models with chiller on/off,
staging algorithms, etc.

We have a number of papers and thesis on this at our web site
"www-esl.tamu.edu" look under publications.


8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) :=') 8=) 8=) 8=?
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,
P.E.............................jhaberl at esl.tamu.edu
Ph: 979-845-6507
Department of Architecture.......................Lab Ph: 979-845-6065
Energy Systems Laboratory.......................FAX: 979-862-2457
Texas A&M University..............................77843-3581
College Station, Texas, USA.......................URL: www-esl.tamu.edu
8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=? 8=) 8=) 8=)


From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org on behalf of May Xu
Sent: Mon 8/4/2008 4:53 AM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] District Thermal System

Dear All,

I'm now working on a project using Districted Heating System provided by
a municipal system. The municipal system is working for a very large
areas providing steam for about hundred buildings. And my building is
one of them.

According to the latest update issued by USGBC
(https://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=4176), the modeling will
be implemented by two steps. My question is about Step-2 (Aggregate
Building/DES Scenario).  In step-2, the energy source of Proposed
Building is virtual on-site chiller representing upstream DC system. The
document also issues "The DES central plant itself shall always be
modeled as a total, entire unit." My understanding is that it requires
to model the central plant with the full capacity that is able to
provide heating for all of buildings in whole district. However, if
doing so, the energy consumption of the proposed building may be quite
quite high, since it includes the energy consumption of the whole
heating plant!! But my building is only one of the 100 buildings that
are heated by the central plant.  It is weird and  I don't think it is
what USGBC asked for. Does anyone know what shall I do for the proposed
building in Step-2?

Thank you.

May Xu,  LEED(r)AP
Project Engineer - Sustainable Design

Suite 3705A, Ciro` s Plaza,
388 Nan Jing West Road,
Shanghai, 200003, PRC

Tel:  (86 21) 6334.6181 ext. 2230
Fax: (86 21) 6334.6182

www.hok.com <http://www.hok.com/>
www.hokasiapacific.com <http://www.hokasiapacific.com/>

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