[Bldg-sim] calculating the mean monthly outdoor temp

Chris Yates Chris at zed-uk.com
Fri Nov 28 08:06:04 PST 2008


Hi Bill,
In terms of engineering simplicity I'm 100% with you. In terms of code 
compliance however, I'm eager to demonstrate the most thorough 
implementation of the procedure - covering my BS with both hands! My 
client has paid me for thermal sim to cover his in turn. I've actually 
submitted the query to ASHRAE as well and will inform on this list of 
the outcome.
I do see building science as a bit of an "inexact science" and your 
software does appear to bring some of the old school rules of thumb more 
up to date with the benefits of computing. Whilst it isn't quite what I 
need right now, it is entirely laudable - best of luck.
Once again, many thanks.
Chris

billhclark at bar-x-soft.com wrote:
> Where did you people get the idea the method used only max and min 
> temperatures?  It uses total annual heating and cooling bin hours and 
> langleys.  The DOE developed the method using nomographs - it works 
> for them, and I don't see why it can't work equally as well now.  I do 
> not claim it is as accurate as the full blown methods on the market 
> that tabulate loads for every hour and every day.  (If you really want 
> to get pedantic, that method is quite inaccurate, considering the 
> extreme variability in weather.) My method is a very good 
> approximation - it is quick enough that the program operates like a 
> spreadsheet, and gives instantaneous data for every change made in the 
> model.  You see the results on the same screen, and so can see exactly 
> what the result of changing roof color (which is dramatic), adding 
> double paned windows (which is effective only on south and west facing 
> windows), changing outside wall color (which has a significant 
> impact), and so forth.  What other program can claim that kind of 
> immediate result?  You see the effect on annual load from every single 
> building element, and can tweak them individually to find out what 
> works best ~ all this one one screen, real time ~ no waiting for 
> massive print outs with every iteration.
>
> Actually, there are just as many draw backs to the "standard" and 
> "accepted" methods that do hourly calculations ~ the weather is so 
> variable and undependable. All anybody can do is develop a method that 
> gives dependable results, and that's what my program does ~ as good as 
> any product out there.  Moreover, my software is quite simple ~ which 
> actually makes it better because the user can actually understand what 
> he's doing, see the results, and work forward accordingly. 
>
> How useful is a massive program that takes a Masters Degree for the 
> operator to understand and use, a week to input all the data 
> acceptably ~ versus a program that anybody can use in minutes, and 
> obtain a result in an hour?  How many expert energy auditors are there 
> who can do the number of energy audits needed to make any significant 
> impact on energy usage for the U.S.?  The only way to make progress in 
> reducing building energy use is to have a program like mine that gives 
> decent results quickly and with zero experience required.  Having all 
> the results appear instantly on the screen actualy makes the program 
> fun to operate, and quite insightful and educational. 
>
> BC
>
>     -------- Original Message --------
>     Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] calculating the mean monthly outdoor temp
>     From: "Joe Huang" <joe at drawbdl.com>
>     Date: Thu, November 27, 2008 10:07 pm
>     To: "Chris Yates" <Chris at zed-uk.com>, "Building Simulation"
>     <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>
>     The cited method sounds like a carry-over from when stations
>     reported only
>     max/min temperatures.
>     If hourly data is available, why wouldn't you just calculate the
>     mean of all
>     the temperatures ?
>
>     Joe Huang
>     White Box Technologies
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Chris Yates" <Chris at zed-uk.com>
>     To: "Building Simulation" <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>     Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 1:58 PM
>     Subject: [Bldg-sim] calculating the mean monthly outdoor temp
>
>
>     > For the purpose of acceptability limits, can anybody cite any
>     guidance on
>     > calculating the mean monthly outdoor temperature? I've read
>     ASHRAE 55 and
>     > it states: "mean monthly outdoor temperature is the arithmetic
>     average of
>     > the mean daily minimum and the mean daily maximum outdoor (dry bulb)
>     > temperature for the month in question."
>     > Thanks
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