[Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface

[deepa chandrashekaran]

Thank you very much Charlie !


-Deepa



On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:11 AM, D. Charlie Curcija <
curcija at designbuildersoftware.com> wrote:

>  Deepa,
>
> When you go to Openings in DB, and select glazing, then either edit
> existing or create new ("+") glazing system, in the screen that opens, on
> the left part of that screen there is section with Layers, and when you
> click on Pane Type, on the right side of the screen, there is upper portion
> and lower portion.  Upper portion is selection area and there is selection
> of glasses, including IGDB.  They are grouped by types (clear, coated,
> etc.).  If you expand coated group and select one of coated glazings, lower
> portion (right below the list) shows properties.  If you scroll down, you
> will see section on Infra-Red properties, where emissivities 1 and 2 are
> listed.  first one is outdoor faced and second one is indoor faced, so as
> appropriate you can determine if it is right orientation or not, and if not
> you just use flip box in the left portion of the screen where you clicked on
> Pane Type.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
> From: deepa chandrashekaran <creations.deepa at googlemail.com><creations.deepa at googlemail.com>
> To: D. Charlie Curcija <curcija at designbuildersoftware.com><curcija at designbuildersoftware.com>
> Date: 8/28/2009 8:52 AM
>
> Charlie,
>
> Where can you find the emmisivity of each glass in Design Builder? I am
> looking for the same.
>
> Nick, I agree with your comments about the 'flip' function in Design
> Builder. Is there a way to find out which surface has the coating in Design
> Builder ?
>
> I have not yet used Windows5.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Deepa
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:46 AM, D. Charlie Curcija <
> curcija at designbuildersoftware.com> wrote:
>
>> WINDOW has function to flip glass.  It is a check box "flip" at the
>> glazing layer level.  Same function is available in DesignBuilder.
>>
>> DesignBuilder includes IGDB and the rule is the same as in WINDOW, surface
>> 1 is facing outdoor, while surface 2 is facing indoors.  Same rule applies
>> to layers, first glass is outdoormost, last glass is innermost.  In
>> DesignBuiolder you can look at the emissivities of each glass layer and if
>> emissivity is lower than 0.84 (usually low-e is is less that about 0.2),
>> then this is low-e surface.  So if the glass that you selected has low-e
>> surface facing wrong side, then you can check "flip" box and reverse it.  As
>> somebody pointed out, this reverses the orientation of the glass, not the
>> order of glass in the glazing system.  Typically, you want to have one low-e
>> surface in each gap space (having two low-e surfaces in the same gap space
>> provides negligible improvement) and typically you do not want low-e facing
>> either indoor or outdoor (some manufacturers have started using hard coat
>> low-e facing indoors in order to improve U-factor of the glazing system and
>> whole window, but this is still pretty rare due to issues of cleaning
>> exposed low-e surfaces, discoloring, etc.  Also, it has negative
>> consequences on condensation resistance.)  Thus if you have, for example
>> double glazing system with Pilkington Suncool  Brilliant 30/17 (low-e glass)
>> on the outdoor side and Pilkington North America Optifloat  Clear (Clear) on
>> the indoor side, you will notice that the low-e surface on the Pilkington
>> Suncool  Brilliant 30/17 is surface #1, which would mean that it faces
>> outdoors.  So you would check flip box, which will place low-e coating on
>> surface #2, which would be correct becasue it would be facing the glazing
>> gap.
>>
>> Charlie Curcija
>> DesignBuilder Software USA
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
>> From: Chris Yates <chris at zed-uk.com>
>> To: Nick Kovess <Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com>
>> Date: 8/28/2009 5:17 AM
>>
>>> Nick's right. I didn't have the software in front of me at the time.
>>> Window 5 uses the international glazing database that I talked about. DB
>>> uses the same data. It is easier to review it in Window. I don't think
>>> Window has a flip feature - is that right Nick?
>>> Cheers
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 28 Aug 2009, at 06:48, "Nick Kovess" <Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi Deepa,
>>>>
>>>> I believe 'flip' means to switch which 'surface' on the individual pane
>>>> the low-E coating is applied to. The order of the panes in the glazing setup
>>>> will not change if you tick the flip box. When you are building up a glazing
>>>> system, design builder clearly shows 'outermost pane' and 'innermost pane',
>>>> these do not change if you check the flip box.
>>>>
>>>> Basically I believe it is the opposite to what Chris just said.
>>>>
>>>> In terms of finding out on which surface the coating originally is, and
>>>> thus where it will move to if 'flipped', I have found using the software
>>>> Window5 easiest for this. In Window5, find the same pane you wish to use in
>>>> DesignBuilder and when you look at the glazing set up you can see a dashed
>>>> line which indicates the location of the coating.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nick Kovess
>>>> Engineer | Building Science Group
>>>>
>>>> Meinhardt
>>>> Level 12
>>>> 501 Swanston Street
>>>> Melbourne VIC 3000
>>>> Phone: +61 (0) 3 8676 1200
>>>> Direct:  +61 (0) 3 8676 1366
>>>> Mobile: 0413 586 936
>>>> Fax:     +61 (0) 3 8676 1201
>>>> E-mail: nick.kovess at meinhardtgroup.com
>>>> http://www.meinhardtgroup.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Chris Yates <chris at zed-uk.com> 28/08/2009 3:14 pm >>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi Deepa
>>>> I think flip means swap the place of inside and outside pane - not
>>>> flipping the individual panes so that the coating moves to the
>>>> opposite surface.
>>>> DB uses the International Glazing Database which you can download from
>>>> lbnl. It's easy to use so worth downloading a copy. Unforunately you
>>>> can't transfer the results to DB at present.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 28 Aug 2009, at 04:38, deepa chandrashekaran <
>>>> creations.deepa at googlemail.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Jeff,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for responding. I agree that it depends on the climate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Design Builder has the option called 'flip' while making the double
>>>>> pane assembly. Hence I was not clear as to which surface is the
>>>>> coating on and what does flip actually mean?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Deepa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Jeff Haberl <jhaberl at tamu.edu> wrote:
>>>>> The "surface" depends on the climate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cooling dominated climates benefit from the low-E on the inside
>>>>> surface of the outside pane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heating dominated climates benefit from the low-E on the outside
>>>>> surface of the inside pane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such characteristics are normally defined by the applicable codes
>>>>> for a given location.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> BB 8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) :=') 8=) 8=) 8=? BB
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D., P.E.,
>>>>> FASHRAE...................jhaberl at esl.tamu.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> Professor.
>>>>> .....................................................Office Ph:
>>>>> 979-845-6507
>>>>>
>>>>> Department of Architecture.......................Lab Ph: 979-845-6065
>>>>>
>>>>> Energy Systems Laboratory.......................FAX: 979-862-2457
>>>>>
>>>>> Texas A&M University..............................77843-3581
>>>>>
>>>>> College Station, Texas, USA.......................URL: www-
>>>>> esl.tamu.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> BB 8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=?  8=) 8=) 8= BB
>>>>>
>>>>> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org <
>>>>> bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  To: Bldg-Sim <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thu Aug 27 21:58:12 2009
>>>>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am trying to model several types of Low E glazing in Design
>>>>> Builder to understand the effect on the peak heating and cooling load.
>>>>>
>>>>> While choosing different glazing, I could not understand which
>>>>> surface of the glazing has the Low E coating.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would appreciate any inputs about this aspect.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Deepa Chandrashekaran, LEED AP
>>>>> Master of Building Science 2010
>>>>> University of Southern California
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
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