[Bldg-sim] EPact 2005 tax savings

[Joe Huang]

(I'm responding to this only because you had mentioned me by name, 
Ellen  (:-))

My main concern was not whether a specific program or tool has been 
approved (although I can sympathize
with some of the sentiments expressed), but with the lack of rigor in 
the acceptance criteria, which may in the
end bring down the credibility of simulations.   I see the use of 
simulations for ePack as a double-edged sword.
It's a powerful incentive for people to do simulations, but also a ripe 
situation for abusing simulations for
material benefit.

Joe

Ellen Franconi wrote:
> Joe, thanks for shedding some light on the acceptance criteria and how 
> it compares to other approaches.
>  
> It is truly a shame that eQUEST has not been approved yet. I do not 
> know what the hold up is but I believe the program was submitted years 
> ago to DOE for acceptance. VisualDOE was accepted a couple of months 
> after its application was submitted. It makes you wonder what DOE 2.2 
> is missing that DOE 2.1E has. Better submittal documentation?
>  
> eQUEST is probably the most widely used program for performing 
> simulation analysis in the U.S. With our current administration's 
> initiative to promote an energy-efficient economy and have Federal 
> Buildings achieve 30% better performance than 90.1-2004, it is 
> inconsistent that this program is not fast-tracked for acceptance. 
> With construction costs climbing dramatically, these tax incentives 
> could go a long way to help achieve what they were designed for - 
> promoting energy efficient buildings in the U.S.
>  
> If anyone on BLDG-SIM can provide insights into why eQUEST has not 
> been accepted, please share this with the rest of us. And if no 
> explanation can be provided, perhaps we can use our BLDG-SIM critical 
> mass to encourage DOE and/or the software developers to push this 
> through the acceptance process.. .
>  
> Ellen
>  
>  
> Ellen Franconi, Ph.D., LEED AP
> Energy Analysis Group Manager
> Architectural Energy Corporation
> 2540 Frontier Avenue
> Boulder, CO 80301
> tel. 303-444-4149
> fax 303-444-4303
> efranconi at archenergy.com <mailto:efranconi at archenergy.com>
> http://www.archenergy.com/
>
>
> >>> Joe Huang <joe at drawbdl.com> 02/25/09 2:17 PM >>>
> I frankly don't understand the criteria of acceptance for software
> approval.  It seems to accept any program that's self-described as
> capable of dynamic simulations with time-varying inputs and outputs, and
> has gone through the ASHRAE/ANSI Standard 140 comparisons. But Standard
> 140 is just a cross-program comparison for very simplified cases, sort
> of digital hot-box experiments, if you will.  Does this mean that all
> simulations done with these programs are valid and credible ?  Any DOE-2
> simulation ? Any EnergyPlus simulation ? Of course not.  It's all in the
> inputs, and if the inputs or modeling are faulty, the results could be
> all over the map.   If we compare this criteria of acceptance to
> California's Title-24 Certification of compliance programs, the
> approaches are almost completely opposite.  Here, the criteria are
> whether the programs have the right fundamentals or "intentions" ;
> there, the criteria are whether the programs give the right results. 
> I'm afraid we're leaving the barn door open for a lot of questionable
> claims backed up by the use (or abuse) of supposedly approved software.
>
> Joe Huang
>
>
>
> Xiaobing Liu wrote:
> > As I remember, Green Building Studio (GBS) is on the list. Since GBS
> > runs eQUEST (and other software?) behind the screen, can the tax
> > credits be granted if the building performance simulation is conducted
> > by eQUEST through GBS. I'm a bit confused here. Can anyone shed light
> > on this issue?
> > 
> > Xiaobing
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> >     [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]*On Behalf Of
> >     *David S Eldridge
> >     *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:22 PM
> >     *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> >     *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] EPact 2005 tax savings
> >
> >     It is currently not submitted for approval.
> >
> >     
> ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >     
> >
> >     David Eldridge, PE
> >
> >     LEED® AP
> >
> >
> >     *Grumman/Butkus Associates* | 820 Davis Street, STE 300 |
> >     Evanston, IL 60201 | Ph: (847) 328-3555, ext 224 | Fax: (847) 
> 328-4550
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Energy Consultants and Design Engineers
> >     
> ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >     
> >
> >     
> >
> >     
> >
> >     *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> >     [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of
> >     *Chris Mullinax
> >     *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:26 PM
> >     *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> >     *Subject:* [Bldg-sim] EPact 2005 tax savings
> >
> >     
> >
> >     
> >
> >     http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/qualified_software.html
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Epact 2005 tax credits were extended to 2013 in the recent
> >     “Stimulus Package.”
> >
> >     
> >
> >     I’m looking at a page on the DOE web site that lists approved
> >     software used obtain Epact 2005 tax credits, and I notice eQuest
> >     is not specifically listed. DOE-2.1 is listed however. Does anyone
> >     know if eQuest will be acceptable for EPact 2005 simulations?
> >
> >     
> >
> >     The link to the list is given above.
> >
> >     Any help is appreciated.
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >
> >     Chris Mullinax, P.E. LEED AP
> >
> >     
> >
> >     pn: 770-387-1334
> >
> >     fx:  770-387-1383
> >
> >     chris at mullinaxsolutions.com <mailto:chris at mullinaxsolutions.com>
> >
> >     www.mullinaxsolutions.com <http://www.mullinaxsolutions.com>
> >
> >     
> >
> >     
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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