[Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 6

Tianzhen Hong thong at lbl.gov
Thu Jan 8 13:48:18 PST 2009
Previous message: [Bldg-sim] FW: Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
Next message: [Bldg-sim] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems
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Alex,

We did an EnergyPlus run time analysis for CEC based on E+ version 2.2. 
CEC is close to publishing the report. The report answers most of your 
questions.

Tianzhen

On 1/8/2009 12:01 PM, bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. [BLDG-SIM] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems (Alex Chapin)
>    2. new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes
>       (Cramer Silkworth)
>    3. Re: new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes
>       (Aulbach, John)
>    4. chillers system 8 (Elena Verani)
>    5. Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P. Hay)
>    6. FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P. Hay)
>    7. Re: Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (James V. Dirkes II  P.E.)
>    8. FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P. Hay)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:51:44 -0500
> From: Alex Chapin <alexc at 2rw.com>
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] [BLDG-SIM] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems
> To: "bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org" <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<6AF9AFA739099A43B163308B4B0892A42CA0E050AF at VMBX107.ihostexchange.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Does anyone have recommendations on computer performance specs for reducing the run times?  When large models are run, the lengthy run time creates an annoyance when trying to debug issues in the model or perform parametric runs.
>
> My idea was to create a modeling server from a decked out PC.  The hope being that I will be able to have other non-modeling programs running on my computer and perform the energy simulation remotely on the modeling server.  What combination of processor, RAM, Motherboard, video card, etc. would be ideal in creating a modeling server?  Could this modeling server be set up to run more than one eQUEST or EnergyPlus type simulation at a time?
>
> My personal computer currently has a dual core processor, but I saw an email that said programs like EnergyPlus and eQUEST will only use one of the two cores.  Is there any program which can use both?  If not, would getting a higher performing single core processor be better?
>
> Any advice on this topic would be much appreciated,
>
> Alex Chapin, E.I.T., LEED AP
> Energy Engineer
> 2rw Consultants
> T: 434-296-2116 ext. 101
> F: 434-977-1862
> alexc at 2rw.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 23:32:15 +0100
> From: "Cramer Silkworth" <silkworth at transsolar.com>
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes
> To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<FE872D9C4591BF44AAFD986BF73368FF032D0A28 at webmail.transsolar.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi All,
>  
> I'm new to eQuest, testing it out to see if we like it for some modeling
> tasks over our current software (Trnsys). I'm trying to model a building
> in which every floor has a different shape. Can someone tell me the best
> way to approach this? Should each floor be a new shell? For that matter,
> what is a 'shell', anyways? 
>  
> Thanks,
> Cramer
>  
>
> J. Cramer Silkworth
>
> Transsolar Climate Engineering
>
> Technical consulting for energy efficiency and environmental quality in
> buildings.
>
> 145 Hudson Street
>
> Suite 402
>
> New York, NY 10013
>
> Office: 212-219-2255
>
> silkworth at transsolar.com
>
>  
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:48:08 -0800
> From: "Aulbach, John" <jaulbach at nexant.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with varying floor
> 	shapes
> To: "Cramer Silkworth" <silkworth at transsolar.com>,
> 	<bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<99A2815FF4D295488E034407278B16A40276D969 at sacexm01.nexant.corp>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Cramer:
>  
> I have never used TRNSYS, but I always had the impression it was more
> process versus whole building oriented.
>  
> You will want to build your differently shaped floors in the Design
> Development (DD) Wizard. The Schematic Wizard only allow on shape. In
> the DD Wizard, you can trace AutoCAD DWG files to develop each floor.
> My drift on the "shell" concept is that it is indeed a floor, where
> there are several zones on the same level. The shell can also be the
> floor of another building, thus the ability not only to to different
> floor plans in the same building, but different buildings in the same
> run.
>  
> Hope this gets you started.
>  
> John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM
> Project Manager
> Nexant, Inc.
> 701 West Kimberly Ave., Suite 245
> Placentia, CA 92870-6342 USA
> Phone: 714-524-4402
> Fax: 714-524-4407
> email: jaulbach at nexant.com
>  
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Cramer
> Silkworth
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:32 PM
> To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes
>
>
> Hi All,
>  
> I'm new to eQuest, testing it out to see if we like it for some modeling
> tasks over our current software (Trnsys). I'm trying to model a building
> in which every floor has a different shape. Can someone tell me the best
> way to approach this? Should each floor be a new shell? For that matter,
> what is a 'shell', anyways? 
>  
> Thanks,
> Cramer
>  
>
> J. Cramer Silkworth
>
> Transsolar Climate Engineering
>
> Technical consulting for energy efficiency and environmental quality in
> buildings.
>
> 145 Hudson Street
>
> Suite 402
>
> New York, NY 10013
>
> Office: 212-219-2255
>
> silkworth at transsolar.com
>
>  
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:20:35 -0000
> From: "Elena Verani" <everani at hilsonmoran.com>
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] chillers system 8
> To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<3BBCBF3E24390749A2059774C10007A202C40BFC at HMP107.hilson_moran.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all,
> I'm modelling an office building with a floor area of more than 240000
> sf.
> The baseline system is system 8 VAV w/PFP boxes and I will need 2
> equally sized centrifugal chillers.
> My question is: how do the 2 chillers interact? Both of them working at
> half load or one working at full load and the second one only working
> when the first one is not enough?
>  
>  
>  
> ELENA VERANI 
> Sustainability Consultant - LEED AP
> HILSON MORAN
>  
> Members of the Italian, Emirates and U.S. Green Building Councils
>  
> London:	 +44 (0)20 7940 8888	
> www.hilsonmoran.com <http://www.hilsonmoran.com/> 	
>  
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
> Registered No: 1233447 England. Registered Office: One Discovery Place,
> Columbus Drive, Southwood West, Farnborough, Hampshire GU14 0NZ
>  
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:19:24 -0500
> From: "P. Hay" <phay at cwjamaica.com>
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
> To: "BLDG-SIM" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID: <000e01c971a4$7d098180$771c8480$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all,
>
>  
>
> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open
> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction
> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are
> more energy efficient because they have:
>
>  
>
> a)      higher reflectances,
>
> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and
>
> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.
>
>  
>
> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the
> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,
> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces
> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are
> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't
> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the
> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and
> cooling load of plenums are considered.  
>
>  
>
> Is there something I'm missing?
>
>  
>
> Paul Hay
>
> Managing Partner
>
> PAUL HAY Consultants
>
>  
>
> Capital Project Planning and Management
>
>  
>
> 15a Cassia Park Road
>
> Kingston 10
>
> Jamaica, W.I.
>
>  
>
> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274
>
> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
>  
>
> web: www.phcjamaica.com
>
> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com
>
>  
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:29:42 -0500
> From: "P. Hay" <phay at cwjamaica.com>
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
> To: "BLDG-SIM" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID: <001c01c971a5$edd28870$c9779950$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The study uses both: ducted return in open plenums and plenum return for
> suspended ceilings.
>
>  
>
> Paul Hay
>
> Managing Partner
>
> PAUL HAY Consultants
>
>  
>
> Capital Project Planning and Management
>
>  
>
> 15a Cassia Park Road
>
> Kingston 10
>
> Jamaica, W.I.
>
>  
>
> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274
>
> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
>  
>
> web: www.phcjamaica.com
>
> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: Steve Tobin [mailto:stobin at smithboucher.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:23 AM
> To: phay at phcjamaica.com
> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
>
>  
>
> Does your model include ducted return or plenum return?  If it is ducted
> return the return air is pulled from the space and the light heat gain is
> less load for the AHU.  If you have a plenum return the full lighting load
> should be accounted for.
>
>  
>
>
>
> Steve Tobin
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0061
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
>  
>
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:19 AM
> To: BLDG-SIM
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
>
>  
>
> Hi all,
>
>  
>
> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open
> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction
> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are
> more energy efficient because they have:
>
>  
>
> a)      higher reflectances,
>
> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and
>
> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.
>
>  
>
> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the
> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,
> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces
> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are
> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't
> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the
> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and
> cooling load of plenums are considered.  
>
>  
>
> Is there something I'm missing?
>
>  
>
> Paul Hay
>
> Managing Partner
>
> PAUL HAY Consultants
>
>  
>
> Capital Project Planning and Management
>
>  
>
> 15a Cassia Park Road
>
> Kingston 10
>
> Jamaica, W.I.
>
>  
>
> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274
>
> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
>  
>
> web: www.phcjamaica.com
>
> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com
>
>  
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:40:07 -0500
> From: "James V. Dirkes II  P.E." <jvd2pe at tds.net>
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
> To: <phay at phcjamaica.com>, "'BLDG-SIM'" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID: <AB6A3B78D7714E9CB32D4D93427ED85A at BPT>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Paul,
>  
> In theory, the return plenum is warmer than the occupied space, so the wall
> and, especially, roof loads do not affect the space in the same way.  This
> will give a warmer coil entering condition and resulting smaller coil,  fan,
> duct, motor, wiring, electrical service, etc.
>  
> The ACTUAL difference will be small and may not be worth the additional
> analysis and load calculations.  You could argue that a VAV system will
> realize the benefits, since it will "see" the space load only and reduce
> volume to suit.
>  
> Another consideration is whether the life cycle energy benefits outweigh the
> differential cost to install and maintain the suspended ceiling....  I
> suspect they do, but am uncertain re: ROI.
>  
>
> The Building Performance Team
> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
> 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> 616 450 8653
>
>  
>
>  
>
>   _____  
>
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:19 AM
> To: BLDG-SIM
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>  
>
> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open
> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction
> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are
> more energy efficient because they have:
>
>  
>
> a)      higher reflectances,
>
> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and
>
> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.
>
>  
>
> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the
> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,
> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces
> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are
> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't
> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the
> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and
> cooling load of plenums are considered.  
>
>  
>
> Is there something I'm missing?
>
>  
>
> Paul Hay
>
> Managing Partner
>
> PAUL HAY Consultants
>
>  
>
> Capital Project Planning and Management
>
>  
>
> 15a Cassia Park Road
>
> Kingston 10
>
> Jamaica, W.I.
>
>  
>
> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274
>
> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
>  
>
> web: www.phcjamaica.com
>
> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com
>
>  
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:37:33 -0500
> From: "P. Hay" <phay at cwjamaica.com>
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
> To: "BLDG-SIM" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>
> Message-ID: <003d01c971c0$2baf5460$830dfd20$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks James,
>
>  
>
> I'm beginning to see how there could be a difference: especially since the
> office modeled does use a VAV system and the food store is a single storey
> building with 100,000 sq. ft roof.  It would seem that the roof loads have
> the greater influence because its energy costs savings are 30 - 40% greater
> than the 8-storey office building with 15,000 sq. ft. roof for four
> locations (including Orlando), and 70% higher for Charlotte.
>
>  
>
> BTW, it is claimed that the life-cycle payback is between 5 - 11 years for
> the office, and 0.9 - 1.7 years for the food store.
>
>  
>
> Paul Hay
>
> Managing Partner
>
> PAUL HAY Consultants
>
>  
>
> Capital Project Planning and Management
>
>  
>
> 15a Cassia Park Road
>
> Kingston 10
>
> Jamaica, W.I.
>
>  
>
> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274
>
> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
>  
>
> web: www.phcjamaica.com
>
> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: James V. Dirkes II P.E. [mailto:jvd2pe at tds.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:40 AM
> To: phay at phcjamaica.com; 'BLDG-SIM'
> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
>
>  
>
> Dear Paul,
>
>  
>
> In theory, the return plenum is warmer than the occupied space, so the wall
> and, especially, roof loads do not affect the space in the same way.  This
> will give a warmer coil entering condition and resulting smaller coil,  fan,
> duct, motor, wiring, electrical service, etc.
>
>  
>
> The ACTUAL difference will be small and may not be worth the additional
> analysis and load calculations.  You could argue that a VAV system will
> realize the benefits, since it will "see" the space load only and reduce
> volume to suit.
>
>  
>
> Another consideration is whether the life cycle energy benefits outweigh the
> differential cost to install and maintain the suspended ceiling....  I
> suspect they do, but am uncertain re: ROI.
>
>  
>
> The Building Performance Team
> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
> 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> 616 450 8653
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>   _____  
>
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:19 AM
> To: BLDG-SIM
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums
>
> Hi all,
>
>  
>
> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open
> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction
> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are
> more energy efficient because they have:
>
>  
>
> a)      higher reflectances,
>
> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and
>
> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.
>
>  
>
> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the
> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,
> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces
> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are
> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't
> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the
> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and
> cooling load of plenums are considered.  
>
>  
>
> Is there something I'm missing?
>
>  
>
> Paul Hay
>
> Managing Partner
>
> PAUL HAY Consultants
>
>  
>
> Capital Project Planning and Management
>
>  
>
> 15a Cassia Park Road
>
> Kingston 10
>
> Jamaica, W.I.
>
>  
>
> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274
>
> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631
>
>  
>
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