[Bldg-sim] FW: FW: Cost of LEED certification

P. Hay phay at cwjamaica.com
Wed Jun 10 07:22:03 PDT 2009


From: P. Hay
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 01:40 PM
To: 'Guedi Capeluto'
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] FW: Cost of LEED certification

 

For those of you interested, the paper "Passive and Low Energy Architecture
(PLEA) vs. Green Architecture (LEED)" is available online at the following
link:

 

http://architecture.ucd.ie/Paul/PLEA2008/content/papers/oral/PLEA_FinalPaper
_ref_371.pdf

 

Paul Hay

Managing Partner

PAUL HAY Capital Projects

 

Strategic Facility Planning and Implementation

 

15a Cassia Park Road

Kingston 10

Jamaica, W.I.

 

tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

 

web: www.phcjamaica.com

e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

profile: www.linkedin.com/in/phcjam

twitter: www.twitter.com/phcjam

 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Guedi Capeluto
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:33 AM
To: 'Bldg-Sim'
Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW: Cost of LEED certification

 

I agree with Harvey too. Moreover, you can ask if LEED (and others systems)
necessarily incentive a climatic, energy-conscious architectural design to
achieve better performance buildings. I am afraid the answer is not. I
recommend the reading of a paper by Edna Shaviv in the last PLEA in Dublin,
"Passive and Low Energy Architecture (PLEA) vs. Green Architecture (LEED)". 

 

In her conclusion she states:

"The fact that all energy saving features are put in one basket, and the
energy standard are defined in such a way that the goals can be achieved
with no need for good architectural design, leads to the present situation.
First, we should straggle first, that Passive Solar Design will be treated
as any other renewable energy, which means, that it will be awarded twice.
Second, the Building Code should treat the energy conscious building design
separately from the mechanical and the hot water systems..."

 

Guedi

Arch. Guedi Capeluto, D.Sc.
Faculty of Architecture and Town Planning
Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
Technion City,  Haifa 32000. Israel
Tel:+972.4.8294012  Fax:+972.4.8294617

email:   arrguedi at tx.technion.ac.il
web  :   http://www.technion.ac.il/~arrguedi/

  _____  

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Reinhart,
Christoph
Sent: 2009-06-09 18:55
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

I agree with Harvey and further recommend a recent paper by Newsham et. al.
in Energy and Buildings titled  'Do LEED-certified buildings save energy?
Yes, but.' (http://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/clear.gif
<http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.enbuild.2009.03.014>
doi:10.1016/j.enbuild.2009.03.014). The authors also conducted a re-analysis
of data supplied by the New Buildings Institute. They found that 'On
average, LEED buildings used 18-39% less energy per floor area than their
conventional counterparts. However, 28-35% of LEED buildings used more
energy than their conventional counterparts.' Somewhat sobering news for
owners of LEED buildings.

 

Christoph

Christoph Reinhart, Dr. Ing. 

Associate Professor of Architectural Technology

Graduate School of Design - Harvard University

Gund Hall 331b, 48 Quincy Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA

t: 617 384 7269, f: 617 495 8916,  <mailto:reinhart at gsd.harvard.edu>
reinhart at gsd.harvard.edu

Daylighting Design: Rules
<http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/people/faculty/reinhart/documents/DiffuseDayligh
tingDesignSequenceTutorial.pdf>  of Thumb,  <http://www.daysim.com/>
Simulation, Executive
<http://execed.gsd.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/exec_ed/details.cgi?offering_id=10168
3>  Education

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Harvey Bryan
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:14 PM
To: sheffer at energyopportunities.com; paul.hay at phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Marcus and all,

 

While the cost of LEED Certification is important, equally important are how
well are LEED projects performing. The New Buildings Institute study (March
2008) of 121 LEED NC v2 buildings certified through 2006 claimed "on average
LEED energy use 25-30% better than the National Average." However a number
of critics of this study has emerged, many of whom used the same data that
NBI used. Henry Gifford has question the methodology used in the NBI study.
The American Physical Society in their Energy Future: Think Efficiency
Report as well as Joe Lstiburek has also questioned the NBI study. Now Dr.
John Scofield from Oberlin has completed a detailed re-examination of the
NBI study and has found that "the NBI data shows that LEED certification has
done nothing to lower building primary energy consumption and associated GHG
emission." I have attached his paper which will be presented at the
International Energy Program Evaluation Conference scheduled for Portland,
OR. August 11-14, 2009. 

 

I believe that the Bldg-Sim community needs to address this issue. Otherwise
the services that we perform will become seriously questioned by the
building profession. Even if LEED buildings cost more, which I believe most
building professionals and clients would accept. It is unacceptable if they
can't deliver on energy performance. 

 

Regards

 

Harvey Bryan

 

Harvey Bryan, Ph.D., FAIA, LEED AP

Professor 

School of Architecture & Landscape Architecture

School of Sustainability

Arizona State University

P.O. Box 871605

Tempe, AZ.  85287-1605

Tel: (480)965-6094

harvey.bryan at asu.edu

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Marcus Sheffer
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:38 PM
To: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Paul without seeing the articles to which you refer I really can't comment
about the comparison of the studies.  

 

Regarding cost and LEED I can offer my own personal experience on more than
100 commercial projects pursuing LEED certification - none has even come
close to approaching the bottom end of the cost range in the ACC study.  I
have no doubt that some projects are spending 4.5% to 11% more but frankly
they are using LEED the wrong way (as a checklist of independent variables
in a point hunting exercise) and the market will weed those practitioners
out over time.  All things being equal LEED does add cost but it is only the
measuring tool.  The real question is does a high performance green building
cost more?  If done correctly my experience is that it does not.

 

We are currently working on a school project which is borderline Platinum.
It was bid last summer and came in significantly under budget and attracted
a $500,000 state grant.  So the actual cost is less than conventional
overall even without the grant.  Project cost drivers are primarily a
function of building type and location.  Within those broad categories it is
about design choices, one can choose to focus resources on building
performance or on other priorities.  Project teams who choose to focus on
the priorities spelled out in LEED can easily do so within the confines of a
conventional project budget.  The rest is just a bit of paperwork.

 

The first time that an architectural firm had to use CAD drawings instead of
hand-drawn; the first time they had to comply with ADA; when major building
code changes occur - all of these things resulted in added costs.  As
experience is gained costs come down significantly and the same thing is
happening with LEED (the ACC study indicates that this was likely to
happen).

 

The real answer to your question is - "it depends" - on many factors
including team experience, priorities, project size, strategies, design
process, etc.  You really can't assume it costs more but if you do, it
probably will.

 

Marcus Sheffer

7group

 

 

From: P. Hay [mailto:phay at cwjamaica.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:33 PM
To: Marcus Sheffer; Bldg-Sim
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Thanks for the links Marcus.  

 

I have scanned the Langdon document and even looked at later articles
written on the topic.  They agree that the Langdon study is more
comprehensive but still gravitate towards the costing provided by the
American Chemistry Council. My take on the matter is that the real issue
here is not whether LEED certification costs more, but how much does it
cost: both in terms of time and expense.

 

Paul Hay

Managing Partner

PAUL HAY Capital Projects

 

Strategic Facility Planning and Implementation

 

15a Cassia Park Road

Kingston 10

Jamaica, W.I.

 

tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

 

web: www.phcjamaica.com

e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

profile: www.linkedin.com/in/phcjam

twitter: www.twitter.com/phcjam

 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Marcus Sheffer
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:39 AM
To: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Anyone's first LEED project requires an investment of time to learn how to
do it.  This learning curve is somewhat steep but once you learn how to do,
actually doing it takes considerably less time.  Outside soft costs
(commissioning, energy modeling and LEED documentation) if you are spending
a dime more for construction costs than conventional for LEED Certified or
Silver then you have made an optional choice or are not properly applying
the system.  Many projects attain the Gold certification level without an
increase in construction costs.  

 

There have been several cost studies over the years than do not show that
LEED requires the type of investment purported by the American Chemistry
Council.  Here are some links:

 

http://www.cap-e.com/publications/default.cfm

http://www.davislangdon.com/USA/Research/ResearchFinder/2007-The-Cost-of-Gre
en-Revisited/

 

The Davis Langdon study above is far more thorough and comprehensive than
the much older ACC report which relies on a considerable amount of early
anecdotal evidence.

 

In many respects the cost of LEED comes down to what you assign to LEED as
an "extra" cost.  Many teams have figured out how to neutralize even the
added soft costs through an integrative design process. 

 

Marcus Sheffer

7group 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:36 AM
To: Bldg-Sim
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

I recall someone once asked about the time needed to be spent on LEED
certification.  Well, I have just come across a report prepared by
Northbridge Environmental Management Consultants
<http://www.nbenvironmental.com> entitled Analyzing the Cost of obtaining
LEED Certification, which is available online at the following link: 

 

http://www.cleanair-coolplanet.org/for_communities/LEED_links/AnalyzingtheCo
stofLEED.pdf

 

It indicates that the documentation takes 226 working hours on average to
prepare and costs between US$8,000 - US$70,000 per project: the first
project costing between US$30,000 - US$60,000.

 

Paul Hay

Managing Partner

PAUL HAY Capital Projects

 

Strategic Facility Planning and Implementation

 

15a Cassia Park Road

Kingston 10

Jamaica, W.I.

 

tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

 

web: www.phcjamaica.com

e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

profile: www.linkedin.com/in/phcjam

twitter: www.twitter.com/phcjam

 

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