[Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

P. Hay phay at cwjamaica.com
Mon Jun 8 16:54:45 PDT 2009


Thank all of you for your contribution.  

 

What may also be of interest here is that I came across the ACC study while
reading an article entitled "Collaboration, Project Management, and Project
Information Management Solutions in AEC" :

 

http://www.aecbytes.com/feature/2009/Collaboration_PM_PIM_Solutions.html.

 

Written in February 2009, the article reviewed a selection of Project
Management tools and mentioned that one customer-requested enhancement of
Newforma Project Center was to improve LEED certification administration;
and I quote:

 

"Newforma Project Center Sixth Edition has several features that can help to
reduce these costs and make the process more efficient, including the
ability to clearly assign LEED roles and responsibilities, capture tasks as
action items, easily file incoming email to the appropriate action item, and
conveniently re-assign action items for follow-up via email notifications.
The current status of a LEED-related action item can be seen at all times,
and reports can be quickly generated to keep all team members informed.
Action items can now be associated with milestones in the project timeline
(see Figure 1), allowing more efficient execution of LEED-related
processes."

 

It seems this tool is suggesting that the LEED certification can be improved
by changing the administration of the whole process.

 

Paul Hay

Managing Partner

PAUL HAY Capital Projects

 

Strategic Facility Planning and Implementation

 

15a Cassia Park Road

Kingston 10

Jamaica, W.I.

 

tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

 

web: www.phcjamaica.com

e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

profile: www.linkedin.com/in/phcjam

twitter: www.twitter.com/phcjam

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Vikram Sami
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 05:21 PM
To: sheffer at energyopportunities.com; Harvey Bryan; paul.hay at phcjamaica.com;
Bldg-Sim
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

 

Going back to the original question though I think (I might have misread the
two) the ACC study addresses the soft costs, while the Davis Langdon study
addresses hard costs associated with LEED, so you really can't compare the
two studies directly. 

 

Harvey makes a really good point about the building performance. I think a
large part of that goes back to usage and retro commissioning. I've seen
projects do worse than the LEED ECB predicted, but I've seen it go the other
way too (especially if the owners have energy efficiency in mind). Very
often, the users have a big part to play in which way the energy pendulum
swings.

 

I think it's important to recognize the role of the energy model as a
proactive tool rather than a reactive (or retroactive) tool. One way LEED
could improve that is to come up with best practices guidelines for SD & DD
level energy modeling. That's where the big decisions are made. One of the
drawbacks of the system right now is that you do a submittal at the end of
construction documents and call it a design submittal, when in fact the
design was mostly frozen at the start of CDs. At this point, any reviewer
comments can't be implemented into the design process, so LEED becomes a
point grabbing tool rather than the best practices design guideline tool
that it should be (and we all want it to be). 

 

So at the risk of incurring the wrath of my entire profession (who think
that there is too much paperwork anyway), how about incorporating a true
design submittal halfway through the design process?

 

 

Vikram Sami, LEED AP 
Direct Phone 404-253-1466 | Direct Fax 404-253-1366 

LORD, AECK & SARGENT ARCHITECTURE
1201 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 300, Atlanta, GA 30361 
Responsive Design . Technological Expertise . Exceptional Service 
Please visit our new website |  <file:///\\www.lordaecksargent.com\>
www.lordaecksargent.com

P Think GREEN before you print.

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Marcus Sheffer
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:45 PM
To: 'Harvey Bryan'; paul.hay at phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

On your last point I agree whole-heartedly!

 

Without entering that data quagmire, I suggest that we all need to do a
better job of understanding building energy use, gathering more data,
connecting modeled and actual performance, developing better tools,
producing more informed modelers, creating performance feedback loops for
designers, developing better metrics, etc. to make sure LEED and other
systems produce the right signals and improve performance.

 

If anyone has any thoughts on how to improve LEED to ensure better
performance feel free to pitch in and help us make it better.

 

Marcus Sheffer, Vice-Chair EA TAG, USGBC

7group

 

 

From: Harvey Bryan [mailto:Harvey.Bryan at asu.edu] 
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:14 PM
To: Marcus Sheffer; paul.hay at phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Marcus and all,

 

While the cost of LEED Certification is important, equally important are how
well are LEED projects performing. The New Buildings Institute study (March
2008) of 121 LEED NC v2 buildings certified through 2006 claimed "on average
LEED energy use 25-30% better than the National Average." However a number
of critics of this study has emerged, many of whom used the same data that
NBI used. Henry Gifford has question the methodology used in the NBI study.
The American Physical Society in their Energy Future: Think Efficiency
Report as well as Joe Lstiburek has also questioned the NBI study. Now Dr.
John Scofield from Oberlin has completed a detailed re-examination of the
NBI study and has found that "the NBI data shows that LEED certification has
done nothing to lower building primary energy consumption and associated GHG
emission." I have attached his paper which will be presented at the
International Energy Program Evaluation Conference scheduled for Portland,
OR. August 11-14, 2009. 

 

I believe that the Bldg-Sim community needs to address this issue. Otherwise
the services that we perform will become seriously questioned by the
building profession. Even if LEED buildings cost more, which I believe most
building professionals and clients would accept. It is unacceptable if they
can't deliver on energy performance. 

 

Regards

 

Harvey Bryan

 

Harvey Bryan, Ph.D., FAIA, LEED AP

Professor 

School of Architecture & Landscape Architecture

School of Sustainability

Arizona State University

P.O. Box 871605

Tempe, AZ.  85287-1605

Tel: (480)965-6094

harvey.bryan at asu.edu

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Marcus Sheffer
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:38 PM
To: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Paul without seeing the articles to which you refer I really can't comment
about the comparison of the studies.  

 

Regarding cost and LEED I can offer my own personal experience on more than
100 commercial projects pursuing LEED certification - none has even come
close to approaching the bottom end of the cost range in the ACC study.  I
have no doubt that some projects are spending 4.5% to 11% more but frankly
they are using LEED the wrong way (as a checklist of independent variables
in a point hunting exercise) and the market will weed those practitioners
out over time.  All things being equal LEED does add cost but it is only the
measuring tool.  The real question is does a high performance green building
cost more?  If done correctly my experience is that it does not.

 

We are currently working on a school project which is borderline Platinum.
It was bid last summer and came in significantly under budget and attracted
a $500,000 state grant.  So the actual cost is less than conventional
overall even without the grant.  Project cost drivers are primarily a
function of building type and location.  Within those broad categories it is
about design choices, one can choose to focus resources on building
performance or on other priorities.  Project teams who choose to focus on
the priorities spelled out in LEED can easily do so within the confines of a
conventional project budget.  The rest is just a bit of paperwork.

 

The first time that an architectural firm had to use CAD drawings instead of
hand-drawn; the first time they had to comply with ADA; when major building
code changes occur - all of these things resulted in added costs.  As
experience is gained costs come down significantly and the same thing is
happening with LEED (the ACC study indicates that this was likely to
happen).

 

The real answer to your question is - "it depends" - on many factors
including team experience, priorities, project size, strategies, design
process, etc.  You really can't assume it costs more but if you do, it
probably will.

 

Marcus Sheffer

7group

 

 

From: P. Hay [mailto:phay at cwjamaica.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:33 PM
To: Marcus Sheffer; Bldg-Sim
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Thanks for the links Marcus.  

 

I have scanned the Langdon document and even looked at later articles
written on the topic.  They agree that the Langdon study is more
comprehensive but still gravitate towards the costing provided by the
American Chemistry Council. My take on the matter is that the real issue
here is not whether LEED certification costs more, but how much does it
cost: both in terms of time and expense.

 

Paul Hay

Managing Partner

PAUL HAY Capital Projects

 

Strategic Facility Planning and Implementation

 

15a Cassia Park Road

Kingston 10

Jamaica, W.I.

 

tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

 

web: www.phcjamaica.com

e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

profile: www.linkedin.com/in/phcjam

twitter: www.twitter.com/phcjam

 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Marcus Sheffer
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:39 AM
To: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

Anyone's first LEED project requires an investment of time to learn how to
do it.  This learning curve is somewhat steep but once you learn how to do,
actually doing it takes considerably less time.  Outside soft costs
(commissioning, energy modeling and LEED documentation) if you are spending
a dime more for construction costs than conventional for LEED Certified or
Silver then you have made an optional choice or are not properly applying
the system.  Many projects attain the Gold certification level without an
increase in construction costs.  

 

There have been several cost studies over the years than do not show that
LEED requires the type of investment purported by the American Chemistry
Council.  Here are some links:

 

http://www.cap-e.com/publications/default.cfm

http://www.davislangdon.com/USA/Research/ResearchFinder/2007-The-Cost-of-Gre
en-Revisited/

 

The Davis Langdon study above is far more thorough and comprehensive than
the much older ACC report which relies on a considerable amount of early
anecdotal evidence.

 

In many respects the cost of LEED comes down to what you assign to LEED as
an "extra" cost.  Many teams have figured out how to neutralize even the
added soft costs through an integrative design process. 

 

Marcus Sheffer

7group 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:36 AM
To: Bldg-Sim
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification

 

I recall someone once asked about the time needed to be spent on LEED
certification.  Well, I have just come across a report prepared by
Northbridge Environmental Management Consultants
<http://www.nbenvironmental.com> entitled Analyzing the Cost of obtaining
LEED Certification, which is available online at the following link: 

 

http://www.cleanair-coolplanet.org/for_communities/LEED_links/AnalyzingtheCo
stofLEED.pdf

 

It indicates that the documentation takes 226 working hours on average to
prepare and costs between US$8,000 - US$70,000 per project: the first
project costing between US$30,000 - US$60,000.

 

Paul Hay

Managing Partner

PAUL HAY Capital Projects

 

Strategic Facility Planning and Implementation

 

15a Cassia Park Road

Kingston 10

Jamaica, W.I.

 

tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

 

web: www.phcjamaica.com

e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

profile: www.linkedin.com/in/phcjam

twitter: www.twitter.com/phcjam

 

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