[Bldg-sim] do I have to model cooling and heating in this case?

[Linda Lam]

Julia,

In response to your natural ventilation issue:  The user manual for 
ASHRAE 90.1 states "The proposed building default cooling system does 
not exclude natural ventilation from consideration. It just means that 
the proposed building is modeled as a "hybrid system" where cooling is 
provided by natural ventilation when conditions are acceptable and by 
the default mechanical cooling system when natural ventilation is 
inadequate to provide thermal comfort."  From this, I would imagine that 
you should model your regularly occupied spaces as conditioned with this 
so-called hybrid system, rather than unconditioned, as i understand from 
your modeling plan.  (by regularly occupied spaces, I mean offices and 
conference rooms are conditioned and storage is NOT conditioned)  
Technically, if your spaces are "sufficiently" ventilated naturally, 
there would be little to no hours in which the mechanical half of the 
hybrid system turns on.

If you are using equest, you might need to supplement your model with 
separate comfort analyses of the naturally ventilated spaces and then 
work in those results in the form of schedules.
-Linda

Linda Lam
212 219 2255 | lam at transsolar.com
Transsolar Inc. | 134 Spring St. Suite 601 | New York, NY 10012

Transsolar Climate Engineering
Technical consulting for energy efficiency and environmental quality in buildings
New York - Stuttgart - Munich 



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> Subject:
> [Bldg-sim] do I have to model cooling and heating in this case?
> From:
> Julia Beabout <juliabeabout at yahoo.com>
> Date:
> Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:32:08 -0800
> To:
> BLDG-SIM <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>
> To:
> BLDG-SIM <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>
>
>
> Hi All, Was hoping you all could check my thinking regarding how to 
> model the following.  The project is a LEED NCv3/2009 energy model.  
> The project is a large warehouse with some support spaces (offices, 
> toilets, lunch room, security etc).  It is located in Medellin, 
> Columbia.  Medellin has a very mild climate.  It is apparently common 
> for buildings in this location to not be provided with heating or 
> cooling.   In keeping with that, most spaces on this project will not 
> be heated or cooled and satisfy the ASHRAE 90.1-2007 definition for 
> UNconditioned spaces.  (A few of the UNconditioned spaces even have 
> permanently open, fixed louvers and could potentially meet the ASHRAE 
> 90.1-2007 definition for unenclosed spaces).  Appendix G, Table G3.1, 
> 1. Design Model, item b. states: All CONDITIONED spaces in the 
> proposed design shall be simulated as being both heated and cooled 
> even if no heating or cooling system is to be installed....... My 
> Modeling Plan: Since the above statement is for CONDITIONED spaces, my 
> plan is to model the UNconditioned spaces as neither heated nor cooled 
> in both the proposed and baseline models.  I intend to only model the 
> lighting and process energy in these spaces.  For the few cooled 
> spaces on the project, I intend to model both heating and cooling in 
> both the proposed and baseline models even though the spaces will 
> actually only have cooling.  Potential Issues: The only point of 
> confusion or difficulty I see with my plan is that Table G3.1, 4. 
> Schedules, Exception a, and 10. HVAC Systems could potentially create 
> the impression that every space has to be simulated as heated and 
> cooled.  However, with further careful reading, it seems to me that 
> the intent of sections 4 & 6 is to provide details for but not change 
> the scope of section 1 which establishes the extent of spaces that 
> have to be modeled as heated and cooled.  Natural Ventilation Credit? 
> Also, am I missing an opportunity here to get credit for natural 
> ventilation in these spaces?  Although, does providing someone with 
> say an operable window really count as a natural ventilation system?  
> That doesn't seem quite right to me in terms of getting LEED credit 
> for energy savings.  While the spaces have been designed to satisfy 
> the natural ventilation requirements with respect to ASHRAE 62/LEED 
> IEQ purposes, they haven't been "engineered" for natural ventilation 
> from a comfort standpoint.  I would appreciate feedback regarding the 
> correctness my thinking and modeling plan above. Thank you for reading 
> this far. Thanks in advance for your feedback.  Julia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [Bldg-sim] White Box Technologies announces the establishment of a 
> Center for Open Source Building Simulations
> From:
> Chris Jones <cj at cr-jay.ca>
> Date:
> Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:04:14 -0500
> To:
> Joe Huang <YJHuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
>
> To:
> Joe Huang <YJHuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> CC:
> "bldg-sim at onebuilding.org" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>
>
>
>
> There were a number of enhancements, paid for by public entities, 
> implemented in Hirsh's version of DOE2.1e - Dual Fan Dual Duct 
> system, pumping enhancements, etc.  Hirsh was supposed to implement 
> those enhancements in the LBL version...
>
>
>
> At 03:52 PM 1/21/2010, Joe Huang wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends and Colleagues, White Box Technologies wishes to 
>> announce its intention to establish a non-profit Center for Open 
>> Source Building Energy Simulations (COSBES). I admit the title may 
>> sound a bit on the grandiose side, but it capsulizes my thinking on 
>> what may help our little world of building energy simulations - a 
>> non-profit non-commercial center on simulation programs and resources 
>> that's in the public domain. My initial goals are very modest, but my 
>> long-range vision is for the Center to be capable of significant 
>> software development and support, but always open source. My first 
>> steps are simply to maintain an open-source version of DOE-2.1E. 
>> DOE-2.1E has been effectively abandoned by LBNL and DOE for close to 
>> a decade. I have assurances from LBNL that it's only a matter of 
>> paperwork for them to make the program open source, and have 
>> communicated to them my intentions without receiving any objections. 
>> So what would this support consist of, besides making the program and 
>> source code freely available? That would of course depend on the 
>> public's (your) interest and need, which is one reason for this 
>> announcement! But for starters, I have a backlog of completed work 
>> that have never been incorporated into the public release version of 
>> DOE-2.1E, such as two-dimensional and combined response factors for 
>> composite walls, a decent foundation model, and an improved weather 
>> file format.  In addition, I'm currently working on contract for ORNL 
>> to incorporate AtticSim into 2.1E. Lastly, I have a license from LBNL 
>> to continue working on my last major work there - a 
>> partially-completed DOE-2 to EnergyPlus translator (doe2ep) that, 
>> funding pending, can be updated to the current EnergyPlus release. 
>> Also in the works and soon to be launched are (1)  VisualEPlus, a 
>> graphical user interface for EnergyPlus done by colleagues in China, 
>> and (2) actual-year weather data service accessing NCDC's massive 
>> International Surface Hourly (ISH) data base. I had originally 
>> thought of calling a meeting at ASHRAE to make this announcement, but 
>> then realized that finding a time to meet at ASHRAE is an 
>> impossibility. However, I would be happy to entertain any questions 
>> and comments while at the conference, where I'll typically be found 
>> in TC 4.7 and 4.2 meetings. For course, I'm also open to questions 
>> and comments posted on BLDG-SIM, although my responses will be 
>> somewhat delayed. -- Joe Huang White Box Technologies, Inc. 346 Rheem 
>> Blvd. Suite 108D Moraga CA 94556 (o) +925 388 0265 (c) +510 928 2683 
>> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com www.whiteboxtechnologies.com -- Joe 
>> Huang White Box Technologies, Inc. 346 Rheem Blvd. Suite 108D Moraga 
>> CA 94556 (o) +925 388 0265 (c) +510 928 2683 
>> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com www.whiteboxtechnologies.com 
>> _______________________________________________ Bldg-sim mailing list 
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>> http://www.eset.com 
>
>
>
>
> Chris Jones
>
> 14 Oneida Avenue
>
> Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.
>
> Tel.  416-203-7465
>
> Fax. 416-946-1005
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [Bldg-sim] White Box Technologies announces the establishment of a 
> Center for Open Source Building Simulations
> From:
> James Hess <JHess at tmecorp.com>
> Date:
> Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:37:09 -0600
> To:
> "bldg-sim at onebuilding.org" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>
>
> To:
> "bldg-sim at onebuilding.org" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>
>
>
>
> I had a related/similar question.  
>
> I thought DOE2.2 was already open source since it's paid for via public funds.  I also thought that DOE2.2 picked up where DOE2.1E left off and already added several enhancements.
>
> Question: Can COSBES work with DOE2.2 and further improve it, versus starting back where DOE2.1E left off?
>
> Maybe you're already planning to do that, don't know.  It would seem a good idea to have one consolidated version of DOE2 with all enhancements added since DOE2.1E final release.
>
> Any clarification you can provide will be appreciated.
>
> Several of us out here always excited to hear of potential improvements to eQuest/DOE2.2 to help us with our projects.
>
> Thanks! :)
>
> Regards,
>
> James A.  Hess, PE, CEM
> Senior Energy Engineer
> TME, Inc.
> Little Rock, AR
> ph   501-666-6776
> cell  501-351-4667
> jhess at tmecorp.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Chris Jones
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:04 AM
> To: Joe Huang
> Cc: bldg-sim at onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] White Box Technologies announces the establishment of a Center for Open Source Building Simulations
>
> There were a number of enhancements, paid for by public entities, 
> implemented in Hirsh's version of DOE2.1e - Dual Fan Dual Duct 
> system, pumping enhancements, etc.  Hirsh was supposed to implement 
> those enhancements in the LBL version...
>
> At 03:52 PM 1/21/2010, Joe Huang wrote:
>> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>>
>> White Box Technologies wishes to announce its intention to establish 
>> a non-profit Center for Open Source Building Energy Simulations 
>> (COSBES). I admit the title may sound a bit on the grandiose side, 
>> but it capsulizes my thinking on what may help our little world of 
>> building energy simulations - a non-profit non-commercial center on 
>> simulation programs and resources that's in the public domain.
>>
>> My initial goals are very modest, but my long-range vision is for 
>> the Center to be capable of significant software development and 
>> support, but always open source. My first steps are simply to 
>> maintain an open-source version of DOE-2.1E. DOE-2.1E has been 
>> effectively abandoned by LBNL and DOE for close to a decade. I have 
>> assurances from LBNL that it's only a matter of paperwork for them 
>> to make the program open source, and have communicated to them my 
>> intentions without receiving any objections.
>>
>> So what would this support consist of, besides making the program 
>> and source code freely available? That would of course depend on the 
>> public's (your) interest and need, which is one reason for this 
>> announcement! But for starters, I have a backlog of completed work 
>> that have never been incorporated into the public release version of 
>> DOE-2.1E, such as two-dimensional and combined response factors for 
>> composite walls, a decent foundation model, and an improved weather 
>> file format.  In addition, I'm currently working on contract for 
>> ORNL to incorporate AtticSim into 2.1E. Lastly, I have a license 
> >from LBNL to continue working on my last major work there - a 
>> partially-completed DOE-2 to EnergyPlus translator (doe2ep) that, 
>> funding pending, can be updated to the current EnergyPlus release. 
>> Also in the works and soon to be launched are (1)  VisualEPlus, a 
>> graphical user interface for EnergyPlus done by colleagues in China, 
>> and (2) actual-year weather data service accessing NCDC's massive 
>> International Surface Hourly (ISH) data base.
>>
>> I had originally thought of calling a meeting at ASHRAE to make this 
>> announcement, but then realized that finding a time to meet at 
>> ASHRAE is an impossibility. However, I would be happy to entertain 
>> any questions and comments while at the conference, where I'll 
>> typically be found in TC 4.7 and 4.2 meetings. For course, I'm also 
>> open to questions and comments posted on BLDG-SIM, although my 
>> responses will be somewhat delayed.
>> --
>>
>> Joe Huang
>> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>> 346 Rheem Blvd. Suite 108D
>> Moraga CA 94556
>> (o) +925 388 0265
>> (c) +510 928 2683
>> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
>> www.whiteboxtechnologies.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joe Huang
>> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>> 346 Rheem Blvd. Suite 108D
>> Moraga CA 94556
>> (o) +925 388 0265
>> (c) +510 928 2683
>> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
>> www.whiteboxtechnologies.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bldg-sim mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to 
>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature database 4797 (20100122) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
> Chris Jones
> 14 Oneida Avenue
> Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.
> Tel.  416-203-7465
> Fax. 416-946-1005
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing list
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