Varkie C Thomas
thomasv at iit.edu
Mon Jun 14 14:48:50 PDT 2010
Besides the responses to my message sent to Bldg-Sim, I received two other responses that said the same thing, that during building operation “to move the TSTAT set-points in the warehouse so far out that both heating and cooling would never come on, thus simulating ventilation-only energy”. The baseline system for this building would be 7 (Fan Control: Packaged rooftop variable air volume with reheat; Cooling Type: Chilled Water; Heating Type: Hot Water Fossil Fuel Boiler) that provides heating and cooling so the proposed system must do the same. Changing the system to roof top packaged VAVS with gas furnace heating and DX cooling produced a slightly lower Kbtu/sf/yr but the first and maintenance costs and space requirements would be lower.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew W. Higgins" <MWHiggins at bpce.com>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Warehouse
> Just speaking from one of my previous projects with a large
> warehouse component:
> - The warehouse was required by the LEED reviewers to be
> heated and cooled
> - I could not just simulate ventilation energy in the
> proposed case
> - I tried presenting my case and showing the effects of
> conditioning/not conditioning a few variations of proposed and
> baseline, but had to go to an appeal to finish EA c1 because the
> review team appeared to change their request during the re-submittal
> - It may have been mentioned before, but if I would have
> known about it from the beginning I would have saved a lot of
> time/frustration: CIR!
> Don’t shoot me for not remembering where it is, but basically it
> allowed me (and the previous CIR recipient) to move the TSTAT set-
> points in the warehouse so far out that both heating and cooling
> would never come on, thus simulating ventilation-only energy.
> Seems like a sneaky work-around, but by doing this in both models
> it’s treated as an allowable measure.
> Not sure if this helps out in terms of trying to prove the minimum
> required energy cost savings in any other facility though.
> Matthew Higgins, ASHRAE-HBDP, LEED-AP
> Energy Engineer
> Bridgers & Paxton Consulting Engineers, Inc.
> 4600-C Montgomery Blvd. NE
> Albuquerque, NM 87109
> 505-888-1436 Fax
> mwhiggins at bpce.com
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-
> bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Varkie C Thomas
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 9:53 AM
> To: James Hansen
> Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Warehouse
> The warehouse I am looking at is a rectangular building, just
> under 1.5 million sf and with a ceiling height of 41 ft. Maximum
> occupancy is 50 people mostly in 12,000 sf of administrative
> offices with 10 ft ceiling. Why maintain the entire mass of air
> occupying the space volume in the warehouse at 75 deg F in summer
> and 70 deg F in winter? Can the proposed warehouse model use just
> ventilation and save energy. The percent energy savings for LEED
> certification is enormous. Mechanical floors are heated (to
> prevent pipe freezing) and ventilated. Underground parking is
> ventilated. Does ASHRAE Std90 for commercial buildings include
> industrial buildings (steel plants)? The definition only mentions
> area and number floors. I might have got it wrong. I have only
> worked on commercial that house people.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Hansen <JHANSEN at ghtltd.com>
> Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:02 pm
> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Warehouse
> > I�ve modeled a few self storage facilities before, and also had
> > this question. As far as I could tell, System 7 really was the
> > right system for my baseline building, and my condensing furnaces
> > with split system AC units actually had less energy consumption
> > than the chilled water / boiler system. Go figure�
> > From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-
> > bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Varkie C Thomas
> > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 6:41 PM
> > To: Varkie C Thomas
> > Cc: 'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
> > Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Warehouse
> > Since I got no replies, it was must have been a dumb question. I
> > assume Std90 systems and plant are for the baseline only and for
> > the proposed you can use something else. A proposed packaged VAVS
> > with furnace heating and DX cooling produced nearly the same
> > kbtu/sqft/yr (0.1 difference) as the baseline of chilled water and
> > hot water.
> > The information contained in this communication is confidential,
> > may be privileged, and is intended only for the use of the
> > addressee. It is the property of GHT Limited. Unauthorized use,
> > disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is
> > strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received
> > this communication in error, please notify me immediately by
> > return e-mail or by e-mail to ght at ghtltd.com, and destroy this
> > communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.
> > Thank you.
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