[Bldg-sim] Automatic Lighting Shutoff Mandatory Provision Question

Nick Caton ncaton at smithboucher.com
Tue Oct 5 08:40:22 PDT 2010


Rohini,

 

While it's a minor point, I'd only caution that my "hard and fast rule"
is pretty much a directly from Table G3.1.6:  "No automatic lighting
controls ... shall be modeled in the baseline building design..."  That
said, if I were a reviewer I wouldn't have a problem with your approach.

 

While modeling occ. sensors in both cases would help the EUI of the
proposed model, not modeling occ sensors in both cases will mean your
baseline and proposed  HVAC systems have to deal with extra internal
loads, so presuming you have a better HVAC system in the proposed model,
I'd intuitively assume if anything a classroom-heavy school/university
might do better to not model occ. sensors in each model... I guess if
the results bear it out, go with the flow though =).

 

~Nick

 

 

NICK CATON, E.I.T.

PROJECT ENGINEER

25501 west valley parkway

olathe ks 66061

direct 913 344.0036

fax 913 345.0617

Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com 

 

From: R B [mailto:slv3sat at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:23 AM
To: Nick Caton
Cc: Jaigath Chandraprakash; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Automatic Lighting Shutoff Mandatory Provision
Question

 

I actually take the credit for occ. sensor in both the baseline and
proposed case for such spaces that have a mandatory requirement for
occupancy sensor (e.g. classroom). The advantage is your total energy
consumption is slightly less, so when you are in border line cases where
you are ever so slightly less than the required percentage points for
the next level of points it helps. Much more advantageous to do it this
way when you are doing a school/university building.
-Rohini

Rohini Brahme, Ph.D, LEED AP
Building energy analysis, tool development, and training
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX 

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
wrote:

The hard and fast rule I follow is that baseline LPD's are never to be
messed with.  Any and all credit taken for lighting controls is a
deduction of LPD (or sufficiently documented schedule adjustment, I
suppose) in the proposed case. 

 

It can get confusing, but in specific spaces (i.e. classrooms), 9.4.1.2
may require occ. sensors.  In such a case, I don't take a credit in the
baseline (see hard/fast rule above), but instead remove the credit
otherwise taken for that space in the proposed case.    

 

~Nick



 

NICK CATON, E.I.T.

PROJECT ENGINEER

25501 west valley parkway

olathe ks 66061

direct 913 344.0036

fax 913 345.0617

Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
<http://www.smithboucher.com>  

 

From: Jaigath Chandraprakash [mailto:cjaigath at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:32 PM
To: Nick Caton; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Automatic Lighting Shutoff Mandatory Provision
Question

 

Thank you very much Nick. I really appreciate your help on this.

 
I really got confused with this when I got a commnet recently saying
that the "baseline case per section 9.4.1.2 were not modeled" and was
asked to revised the baseline. So I ended up with no savings. This is in
conflict with Table G3.1.6 that you have pointed out which says that No
automatic lighting controls shall be modeled in the baseline building
design. 

 

Does it mean that I am wrong when I applied also 10% savings to my
baseline? This is where I got confused since 9.4.1.1.b also mentions
occupant sensor that shall turn lighting off within 30 mins of occupant
leaving the space. 

 

 

 

________________________________

From: Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
To: Jaigath Chandraprakash <cjaigath at yahoo.com>; 
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 10:38:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Automatic Lighting Shutoff Mandatory Provision
Question



Jaigath,

 

Appendix G allows us to take credit for automatic controls in addition
to (beyond) what's required in 9.4.1 for minimum compliance.  One of the
options here is to have programmable (time-of-day) shutoff for interior
lighting circuits, and you can infer from between Table G3.1 and G3.2 of
Appendix G that baseline models are taken to feature only such timeclock
controls for automatic shutoff.  Further, it's taken that the lighting
scheduling being kept identical between the proposed and baseline
adequately reflects the minimum requirements, so you aren't supposed to
try to explicitly model the programmable shutoff.  

 

If you have occupancy sensors throughout a building which only requires
programmable shutoff, that's an example of having automatic controls
beyond what 9.4.1 requires - and you'd get to take 10% off your proposed
LPD in all spaces where such short-term shutoff isn't already required
(per following section 9.4.1.2).

 

Note Table G3.2 also has a corresponding distinction between building
smaller than and larger than 5,000ft2 - offering more credit for
buildings using a means of automatic shutoff where no such controls are
even minimally required.

 

~Nick

Error! Filename not specified.

 

NICK CATON, E.I.T.

PROJECT ENGINEER

25501 west valley parkway

olathe ks 66061

direct 913 344.0036

fax 913 345.0617

Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jaigath
Chandraprakash
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 9:01 AM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Automatic Lighting Shutoff Mandatory Provision
Question

 

Hello All,

 

I am confused on the mandatory provision 9.4.1.1 which states that
building larger than 5000 ft2 shall have automatic control device. Does
it mean that mid-rise and high rise building cannot claim for credit in
occupancy sensors shown in Table G3.2 because their GFA is more than
5000 ft2 and only small office can claim for this credit? I am sure I am
not interpreting this section correct since from what I read, other
modelers  are claiming for savings for buildings with more than 5000 ft2
area for occupancy sensors even if mandatory requirements states that
this is required which means baseline building will also have occupancy
sensors.

 

Can someone correct me on this? 

 

Thank you,

 

 

C. Jaigath 

 

 


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