[Bldg-sim] CFD w/ Ecotect and Winair4 / NIST FDS

jyotirmay mathur jyotirmay.mathur at gmail.com
Wed Sep 15 21:29:12 PDT 2010


Shariq,

You have touched a very important issue: "importance of domain knowledge for
simulation".
You are very correct in saying that in CFD simulations, assumptions and
boundary conditions play a very important role in simulations. Therefore,
without proper understanding of CFD basics, it can sometimes even produce
'dangerously wrong' results.

Isn't it true for regular energy simulations too? To establish this, we did
one exercise with our students, after giving them only basic exposure about
energy simulation: gave same building to 15 students for simulation using
the same simulation tool, same air conditioning system. Results were varying
over a very wide range due to variety of variations considered by students:
e.g. CFM, chilled water flow rate etc.

Similarly, one CFD exercise of natural ventilation in buildings, when given
to 3 different students, produced significantly different results.

In my opinion, initiatives like 'Building energy modeling professional
certification' of ASHRAE is one possible answer to this issue. Similarly,
there may be one more program on 'Certified CFD simulator for buildings'.

regards,
Jyotirmay Mathur

Dr.-Ing. Jyotirmay Mathur
Coordinator, Centre for Energy and Environment,
Associate Professor, Mechanical Engineering Department
Malaviya National Institute of Technology
J.L.N. Marg, Jaipur (India) -302 017
Phone:
+91-141-2529109 (R)
+91-141-2529061 (o), 2713211 (direct)
+91-94142-50329 (mobile)
http://jyotirmaymathur.tripod.com/

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:37 AM, <Shariq_Ali at urscorp.com> wrote:

> What does the community think of mechanical / energy engineers running
> airflow studies of air movement around and inside buildings using Autodesk's
> Ecotect and Winair4 or NIST FDS? (If an individual can get the programs to
> play together)
> I touched on CFD and FEA in college and remember there is quite a bit to
> it, epically when it comes to assumptions and boundary conditions.
>
> Can a mechanical / energy engineer adequately analyze air movement in and
> around a building with out training in CFD?
> Or do you feel that this is an analysis that is best left for people who do
> CFD simulations regularly?
>
> Keep in mind that Ecotect and Winair4 and NIST FDS are limited in their
> analysis capabilities, so we can limit the scope of this question to only
> analyzing air movement due to wind / pressure in and around a building.
> NIST FDS uses LES, I am not certain what Winair4 uses.
>
> Regards,
> Shariq
>
> Shariq Ali EIT, LEED AP BD+C
> Mechanical Engineer
> URS Corporation
> 1375 Euclid Ave. Suite 600
> Cleveland, OH 44115
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