[Bldg-sim] Process Loads

[Rob Hudson]

So, if i have a large IT space with numerous data racks, the HVAC system
could fall into the G3.1.1 Exception b that states that since it is
thermally different than all other spaces around it, it can be modeled as
its own system in the baseline model.  This would reward/penalize as you
guys are saying.

Now, to further the other part of the discussion, the definition of process
energy stats any energy consumed in support of processes other than
conditiong spaces and maintaining comfort and amenities for the occupants.
 This HVAC system would be maintaining "comfort" even though there is no
occupants in the space?

Thanks for all the help guys, hope your monday is treating you well.

Rob

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr. <
poleary1969 at gmail.com> wrote:

>  also note that if you're dealing with a small IT closet, or data room,
> 90.1 applies to comfort cooling applications.  i.e. people comfort, not
> machinery comfort.  try getting a liebert unit per the efficiency
> requirements of 90.1 chapter 6.  probably won't happen.  if you're just
> dealing w/a small IT closet or small data room and it is served by a
> packaged dx system i've just put them in both the proposed and baseline
> since it constitutes a single thermal zone.
>
> but as far as process loads go, i typically include it/data in process
> loads & haven't had that questioned yet.  it does, after all, add to the
> total process that reviewer's look for being 25% of the baseline building
> cost.
>
>
> On 3/18/11 1:57 PM, Nick Caton wrote:
>
>  Assuming we’re talking about 90.1, the definition for process load reads
> something like “loads that don’t have anything to do with HVAC…” so you
> could make the case that a small IT closet split DX unit or
> thermostat-controlled exhaust fan is not a process load, and therefore the
> HVAC must be modeled as a system.  Why would one *want* to do this?  You
> could demonstrate better performance with your efficient (?) system.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, loads in small IT closest are commonly core zones with
> 24/7 loads, and as a result any such system would be running 24/7 and/or on
> a consistent basis.  An offshoot is you could very simply roll any A/C for
> such spaces into the room’s W/SF, and there would potentially be little
> difference in consumed energy modeled.  Why would one *want* to do this?
>  Objectively:  It’s easy/fast.
>
>
>
> If those were the only two points of interest on the table, as your
> reviewer I wouldn’t care either way.
>
>
>
> That said, the two above paths result in a pretty different baseline
> scenario:  On the one hand you end up with a baseline system against which
> your proposed system may excel or underperform against in handling the
> data/IT room’s heat loads.  In the other case you have zero direct
> conditioning of the loads in that space in either model, which would have to
> propagate into adjacent spaces/systems via partitions – which is in most
> cases a step or two away from reality.   Where one approach is “removed”
> from reality and the other may objectively “reward/punish” the design
> decisions made to condition that space, I think it’s pretty clear which is
> the preferable judgment from a reviewer’s standpoint.
>
>
>
> Then again, I’m not your reviewer ;).
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]**
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.***
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
> mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Otto Schwieterman
> *Sent:* Friday, March 18, 2011 3:24 PM
> *To:* Rob Hudson; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Process Loads
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
>
>
> You can try but I really doubt if the reviewer will see it that way. I
> always consider it its own HVAC system in the proposed model and lump it in
> with the one system per floor HVAC system in the baseline model.
>
>
>
> I do not see much of a benefit for counting this as a process load, maybe
> you can explain why you want to do this.
>
>
>
> Otto
>
>
>
> *From:* Rob Hudson [mailto:rdh4176 at gmail.com <rdh4176 at gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 18, 2011 3:23 PM
> *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Bldg-sim] Process Loads
>
>
>
> I have a question about definition and correct interpretation.  If I am
> modeling building that has a space with a data rack and its own cooling
> system separate from the rest of the buildings systems, is the cooling
> considered process energy because it is "required" to be there similar to
> the data rack electrical energy?
>
>
>
> thanks in advanced,
>
> --
> Rob Hudson
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. intends to send this transmission (including any attachments) only to the
>
> designated individual or entity.   If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by replying
>
> to the electronic mail (if electronic) or by telephone at the number indicated on this document.
>
> Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in the
>
> electronic mail.  Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc., will not accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising
>
> from the use of this electronic mail or attachments. Use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction
>
> of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and maybe unlawful.   Any information included in
>
> this transmission that is not related to contracts with our authorization, verbal or written, by Fanning/Howey
>
> Associates, Inc. may not be covered by our professional liability insurance.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing listhttp://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>
>
>


-- 
Rob Hudson
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20110321/f0f5fcfa/attachment-0002.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1459 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20110321/f0f5fcfa/attachment-0002.jpeg>