[Bldg-sim] Building envelope

RobertWichert robert at wichert.org
Mon Jan 23 16:12:19 PST 2012


Yes, good idea, Jeff.  "Ease of use" isn't in there, but then, I guess 
that's not always important.

Do you know of any papers that compare EQuest to EnergyPro to EnergyPlus 
to DOE-2 to TRACE-700 to anything else using ASHRAE 140?

Maybe the publishers of these models have done the ASHRAE 140 work and 
would allow us to see it, but "Ease of Use" is not on their list!



Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP
+1 916 966 9060
FAX +1 916 966 9068







===============================================


On 1/23/2012 3:13 PM, Jeff Haberl wrote:
>
> FYI...
>
> If you are thinking about how accurate an energy model may or may not 
> be, there has been quite a bit of work done by the ASHRAE Standard 140 
> over the last 20 years, including: empirical, comparative and 
> analytical models of the building envelope, air side systems. Standard 
> 140 is a standard method of test for simulation that is used by others 
> to see if the algorithms inside the program are performing correctly. 
> The IEA and others have tests as well, which include side-by-side test 
> boxes.
>
> Jeff
>
> 8=!  8=)  :=)  8=)  ;=)  8=)  8=(  8=)  8=()  8=)  8=|  8=)  :=')  8=)8=?
>
> Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E., FASHRAE..............jhaberl at tamu.edu
>
> Professor............................................................Office 
> Ph: 979-845-6507
>
> Department of Architecture.............................Lab Ph:979-845-6065
>
> Energy Systems Laboratory.............................FAX: 979-862-2457
>
> Texas A&M University.....................................77843-3581
>
> College Station, Texas, USA, 77843..................URL:www.esl.tamu.edu
>
> 8=/  8=)  :=)  8=)  ;=)  8=)  8=()  8=)  :=)  8=)  8=!  8=)  8=? 8=)8=0
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] on behalf of leen peeters 
> [l.f.r.peeters at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:08 AM
> *To:* Jeremiah Crossett
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; Jon Broadway
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Building envelope
>
> Jeremiah,
> it is already a pretty large building. I assume most people are like 
> me ... really occupied. A small thing can be smached in between, but 
> not something that might take me 6 to 8 hours to analyse and model. 
> Should we not look for something smaller? A might be able to get some 
> data on a passive house in Belgium. Something less than 200 m2, 
> measured during over a year.
> Leen
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:47 PM, Jeremiah Crossett 
> <jeremiah at setnrgh2o.com <mailto:jeremiah at setnrgh2o.com>> wrote:
>
>     I have two office buildings with data, including energy star
>     portfolio manager data, and actual utility meeter data. Also I
>     have architectural data on them.  For the one I have three years
>     data on, the other only one year.   See the attached for the one
>     with the best data and let me know if one of these works..
>
>     On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 11:00 AM, RobertWichert
>     <robert at wichert.org <mailto:robert at wichert.org>> wrote:
>
>         Now THAT would be a better test than I envisioned, Jon.  I was
>         just thinking of comparing models, NOT comparing them to a
>         real building.  Sounds like fun though!
>
>
>
>
>         Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP
>         +1 916 966 9060  <tel:%2B1%20916%20966%209060>
>         FAX+1 916 966 9068  <tel:%2B1%20916%20966%209068>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         ===============================================
>
>
>         On 1/21/2012 9:15 AM, Jon Broadway wrote:
>>
>>         Mr Wichert:  And the next question would be , "Where do we
>>         find such an existing  bldg. with real demand and energy data
>>         set already available?."     I would assume that many such
>>         exist, but I , for one, would not know how to begin to
>>         identify one.  Maybe the folks at NREL or LNBL have access to
>>         such data, and maybe one from there could kindly respond to
>>         your request?
>>
>>         Regards,
>>
>>         Jon A . Broadway
>>
>>         *From:*RobertWichert [mailto:robert at wichert.org]
>>         *Sent:* Friday, January 20, 2012 12:55 PM
>>         *To:* Jon Broadway; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>>         <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>>
>>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Building envelope
>>
>>         Yes, of course.  I was thinking of a non-residential
>>         one-story wood frame, steel studs, or concrete block building
>>         with one or two windows per side and a cathedral ceiling on a
>>         poured slab.  A basement would be OK too, but not really
>>         necessary.  Either no zoning at all or a core for
>>         toilets/break rooms and open plan office all around.
>>
>>         I mean REALLY simple.
>>
>>
>>
>>         Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP
>>         +1 916 966 9060  <tel:%2B1%20916%20966%209060>
>>         FAX+1 916 966 9068  <tel:%2B1%20916%20966%209068>
>>           
>>           
>>           
>>           
>>           
>>           
>>           
>>         ===============================================
>>
>>
>>         On 1/20/2012 10:08 AM, Jon Broadway wrote:
>>
>>         Mr Wichert: Although I like your idea of head-to-head
>>         modeling, I think it would only be real useful if one could
>>         start with a "simple" bldg. for wahich there was existing
>>         good quality energy and demand data set.   That way, one
>>         could not only have "precision " but also some baseline of
>>         "accuracy".
>>
>>         I like you idea,  but to start small and simple would be key
>>         for me,  so as not to commit a large amount of time.
>>
>>         Thanks for your suggestion.
>>
>>         Jon Broadway
>>
>>         Jon  Broadway, Ph.D., P.E.
>>
>>         Member, US  Green Building Council
>>
>>         Member, International Building Performance Standards
>>         Association (IBPSA)
>>
>>         Energy Savers Unlimited
>>
>>         600 South Court St
>>
>>         Suite 305
>>
>>         Montgomery AL  36104
>>
>>         Cell  phone 334- 430-0262 <tel:334-%20430-0262>
>>
>>           
>
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>
>
>     -- 
>     Jeremiah D. Crossett
>     Setanta Energy & Water
>     Phone: 503-688-8951 <tel:503-688-8951>
>     Email: jeremiah at setnrgh2o.com <mailto:jeremiah at setnrgh2o.com>
>     http://www.setnrgh2o.com/
>
>
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