[Bldg-sim] eQuest - common surface between shells and zooming in 3D

[Liam O'Brien]

Thanks for your detailed and extremely useful answers, everyone!
Best regards,Liam O'Brien

From: ncaton at smithboucher.com
To: robbyoylear at gmail.com; bfountain at greensim.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:30:13 +0000
CC: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] eQuest - common surface between shells and	zooming	in 3D









For future reference, wizards will recognize coincident vertical exterior surfaces and distinguish exterior vs. interior as you’re describing, but it requires
 some planning when defining shells.  Attached is one of a few discussions covering this from the archives.

 
The model orientation issue I think Brian is getting at manifests as errors of rounding for angled geometries.  I’ve run into that on rare occasion – it’s obvious
 something is wrong by the time you finish wizards.  I can see this being avoided by defining “cardinal-skewed” building to maximize orthogonal lines for spaces, but you can also spot-fix such issues after the fact by redefining geometries & shell perimeters
 with extra vertices, in my experience.
 
I would give zero concern to naming conventions of surfaces, personally, but I can see how that might cause others heartache.  I’ve never been one to care much
 if a space or component has an arbitrary name, so long as the person using the model (usually me) can figure out what’s what.  If it really bothers you, you might be able to fairly quickly correct such ‘misnaming’ after the fact in notepad using the “replace
 with” function (ex:  replace all instances of “North Wall” with “North-NorthWest Wall”).
 
To help clarify steps 3 onwards as suggested by Patrick, here is a visual step-by-step guide for turning an exterior wall into an interior wall, transcribed
 from another discussion from the lists:
http://onebuilding.org/wiki/doku.php/convert_an_exterior_surface_to_an_interior_surface_detailed
 
There are usually multiple paths to the same end for detailed geometry edits – choose whatever is most intuitive to you!
 
Also, 3D view has a zoom & rotate feature, but no pan (you always look at the origin).

 
Hold ctrl, then left-click
à mouse movement = rotate
Hold ctrl, then right-click
à mouse movement = zoom
 
If anyone is using a one-button mouse with eQuest, you should probably slowly put down your pencil/slide-rule, step away from your visual display terminal,
 and take a short trip to your office supply store for a well-deserved mouse upgrade =).
 
~Nick
 
 

 
NICK CATON, P.E.
SENIOR ENGINEER
 
Smith & Boucher Engineers
25501 west valley parkway, suite 200
olathe, ks 66061
direct 913.344.0036
fax 913.345.0617
www.smithboucher.com

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of Robby Oylear

Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 11:07 AM

To: Brian Fountain

Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] eQuest - common surface between shells and zooming in 3D

 
Brian,

 


That's an interesting way to go about modeling your buildings.  Are you finding the situation comes up often enough to warrant this approach?  My only concern would be that all of your surfaces would then be named incorrectly as far as
 orientation goes.  Due you go back and correct the surface names or do you not make much use of the eQUEST wizard naming conventions?


 


Robby Oylear,
P.E., LEED AP
Mechanical Engineer
Senior Energy Analyst
 

D
206-788-4571

www.rushingco.com
 

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Brian Fountain <bfountain at greensim.com> wrote:


Hi Liam,
 
eQUEST DD wizard will split your common walls horizontally and create and interior partition for
 the lower portion and an exterior surface on the upper portion.  We have found however that it has difficulty if on the DD wizard shell screen 2 you set the building orientation to anything other than north = up (the default).  So our practice is to simply
 not rotate the building in the wizard but rather set the building azimuth in the detailed interface.  In this way, walls of adjacent shells are set correctly. 

 
Roofs of course are another matter entirely.
 
Cheers,
 
Brian
 
PS – this is probably a better topic for the eQUEST-users list rather than bldg-sim.
 


From:
bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of Liam O'Brien

Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 8:42 AM

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Bldg-sim] eQuest - common surface between shells and zooming in 3D




 

Hi All,

 


Two quick questions as an eQUEST rookie:


 


1) I have a gym (25 ft tall) shell surrounded by a hallway shell (10ft). I was hoping that the gym's surfaces that
 touch the hall would be split into two (10 ft tall and 15ft tall) so that they would have different boundary conditions; namely that the top 15ft would be exposed to the exterior. However, the DD Wizard is making the whole thing exposed to the exterior. Is
 there a way around manually fixing this in the detailed mode? I really hope so!


 


2) In the 3D view mode, is there any way to zoom or pan (and not just rotate). If I'm going to edit things in detailed
 mode (see above!), then that would be pretty helpful!


 


Thanks in advance,


 


Liam O'Brien


Assistant Professor


Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada








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--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: ncaton at smithboucher.com
To: moon161 at gmail.com; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Shared surfaces of composite shells
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 22:23:20 +0000











Hi Andy,
 
If you define the adjacent shells in the wizards, then the answer is that the coincident walls will be modeled as an adiabatic surface(s).  They may be changed
 to an interior partition construction to model heat transfer between spaces once in detailed mode if you so desire.
 
Other coincident surfaces (roofs/floors) between shells do not exhibit this behavior upon exiting the wizards.  If left in the model, you will end up with
 non-existant, fully shaded exterior surfaces which will cause unrealistic envelope gains/losses to the adjacent spaces.
 
See Scott Criswell’s post in the extended discussion copied below.  More discussion is available in the archives but I think he put it best…
 
~Nick
 

 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
Smith & Boucher Engineers
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
www.smithboucher.com

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of Andy Mcleod

Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 2:53 PM

To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Equest-users] Shared surfaces of composite shells

 
How are shared surfaces of composite shells modeled?



Say I have a building, 2 cubes, one larger, with a shared wall. Does equest model the shared portion of the wall as an interior wall and walls exposed to the environment as exterior.




The same question goes for other surfaces as well.



Thanks, and happy thanksgiving,



Andy

 

 
From: Amandeep Singh [mailto:amandeep.singh at energycenter.org]


Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:05 PM

To: Nick Caton

Subject: RE: [Equest-users] How to model a bldg with different roof levels?
 
Thanks Nick!!!!
 







Amandeep Singh

Energy Engineer
8690 Balboa Ave, Suite 100

San Diego, CA 92123-1502

858.634.4729 phone

858.244.1178 fax

www.energycenter.org web




 
 
From: Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com]


Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:39 PM

To: Alex Krickx; Amandeep Singh; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: RE: [Equest-users] How to model a bldg with different roof levels?
 
I would suggest side-to-side over stacked.
 
If you position via coordinates, and can get the adjacent planes to be in the same locations, eQuest recognize the coincident planes and automate a number of things for you.  You cannot do this via stacking shells
 on top of each other.
 
I’d suggest reviewing some specifics regarding how you go about positioning your shells from this mailing list discussion.  I can’t seem to find it in the archive to link to, but Scott Criswell outlined some
 pointers pretty helpful to the task at hand.  I’ve copied the discussion down below for your review =). 

 
I’d also suggest bookmarking this archive search page if you haven’t already – you’ll find more information regarding shell placement if you find further trouble getting your shells to line up just right:  http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/
 

 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @
www.smithboucher.com

 
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of Alex Krickx

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:11 PM

To: Amandeep Singh; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] How to model a bldg with different roof levels?
 
It might be easier to make the two shells stacked instead of side-by-side. That way, you can specify that the top shell is open to below and by zoning the bottom shell properly, you can make the part with the
 high ceiling open to above. Just a thought.
 
Regards,
Alex Krickx
 
Alex Krickx
Building Energy Specialist

1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
(t) 408.541.8124
 
Warning: The information contained in this e-mail may
 be privileged attorney-client communications or attorney work product and/or proprietary and confidential.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient then you have received it in error and any review, distribution or copying of this message
 is prohibited and you are to notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message immediately.
 
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of Amandeep Singh

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:58 PM

To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Equest-users] How to model a bldg with different roof levels?
 
Hello everyone,
 
I was trying to model a bldg with 50% area at 25 feet high and remaining area at 10 feet. How can I specify different heights in  the footprint of this bldg. in eQUEST?  I tried to draw in DD Wizard. First I drew a footprint with 25-foot
 height, then I tied to create a new shell with 10-foot height. I wasn’t able to put two shells together. Also, I didn’t know how to change exterior walls to interior.

 
Any help would be appreciated .
 
Regards,
Aman 
 







Amandeep Singh

Energy Engineer
8690 Balboa Ave, Suite 100

San Diego, CA 92123-1502

858.634.4729 phone

858.244.1178 fax

www.energycenter.org web
 




 
From: Scott Criswell [mailto:scott.a.criswell at gmail.com]


Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:49 PM

To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Cc: Nick Caton; Smith, Aaron Matthew

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
 
Just wanted to clarify something that could possibly be mis-understood from Nick's post below, when he states "eQuest will recognize two planes are on top of each other and default each to be adiabatic or partially adiabatic".

Also please note that what Nick stated is by no means incorrect - I just felt compelled to clarify some details here that are not broadly understood.



Two important points on this topic:

(1) The recognition of coincident walls works only for vertical walls (side-by-side shells), NOT horizontal walls (shells stacked on top of each other).  When shells in the wizard are placed side-by-side, then eQUEST can detect this wall coincidence and when
 generating the detailed building model will utilize interior, adiabatic walls wherever the shells are adjoining.  However, there is no such roof/floor wall  coincidence intelligence for wizard shells stacked on top of each other.  IN these cases the user should
 make sure that the Ground Floor construction of the upper shell is set to "Over Conditioned Space (adiabatic)" and the Roof Construction is set to "No Exterior Exposure (adiabatic)".



(2) This vertical wall coincidence checking mechanism lies within the wizard database and defaulting mechanism and is used to populate the detailed (DOE-2) model in such a way as to ensure proper model of side-by-side shells.  No such vertical wall coincidence
 checking exists when creating (the equivalent of) side-by-side shells in the detailed interface.  When creating such walls in the detailed interface, the user must indicate wall exposure by creating either exterior or interior (adiabatic or thermally conductive)
 walls.



Lastly - our team would like to thank Nick (and many others as well) for his contributions to this and the Bldg-Sim e-mail lists.  His detailed and accurate explanations are very beneficial to the eQUEST & building simulation community at large.



- Scott





Nick Caton wrote: 
Happy to help – I’ll point out further that the important thing when modeling varying roof heights / monitors using the “cutting method” (and that is a term I just made up so don’t search for that explicitly),
 to save yourself some time, is to match vertices when defining the separate shells.  In doing so, eQuest will recognize two planes are on top of each other and default each to be adiabatic or partially adiabatic. 

 
This is good because on one level you won’t accidentally end up with a lot more exterior wall than you should have.  On a further level, it will save you some time later in identifying which walls need to be
 tied to adjacent zones (the adiabatic walls will stand out in spreadsheet view), if you decide you want to more accurately account for thermal behavior between the monitor zone(s) and the surroundings by defining “Next to Space…”.
 
Also, flattery will get you nowhere, but thanks for the model compliment ;).
 
Cheers!
 
~Nick
 

 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @
www.smithboucher.com

 
From: Smith, Aaron Matthew [mailto:SMITHA11 at rpi.edu]


Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:48 AM

To: Nick Caton; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
 
Thanks Nick, this looks exactly like what I want to accomplish. I will look up the “cutting lines” strategy and see if I can implement it.
Also thank you for sharing the images of your nice looking model.
 
Cheers,
Aaron
 
From: Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com]


Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:33 AM

To: Smith, Aaron Matthew; 
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
 
I think you’ve identified the root of your problem – I’m unsure that there’s any way to get light in one shell to transmit to another.
 
Attached and below is an example of a project with a lot of roof monitors that does successfully measure and account for daylighting in those spaces.  A  picture speaks a thousand words, so see if this matches
 what you were thinking to accomplish.  
 
Each monitor is a single zone and shell (i.e. no plenum zone).  Sensors are located either on the floor or at a desk height, as appropriate to the space usage.  Creating the shell that “wraps” around the monitors
 is done by using “cutting lines” in the footprint/zoning pattern – you can read up on that strategy by searching the archives for how courtyards are modeled. 

 
I’ll point out, in terms of accuracy, I have the impression that eQuest’s daylight sensors do not accurately realize the full amount of light that should be encountered with light shelves, light tubes, or other
 means of interreflected daylight, based on my comparative daylight analyses using AGI32 (which I’ve learned to use accurately for daylight modeling).  The DOE2 help files I think also allude to this – It’s something to keep in mind if you have a lot of monitor
 overhangs, again as with the example below.
 
~Nick
 



 
 

 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @
www.smithboucher.com

 
From:
equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of Smith, Aaron Matthew

Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:42 AM

To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"
 
Hello E-quest group,
 
I am working on ways to implement Equest in my workflow for the purpose of daylighting design evaluation, and I am having trouble implementing a roof monitor. I have read the help files that describe the limitations of Equest to perform
 daylighting calculations, but I have also seen that some people have been able to implement multilevel atriums and I have seen one application of a roof monitor. Anyways I want to give it a go before I start programming in Daylight Factors.  
 
Attached is an example building I would like to be able to evaluate. My evaluation goal is to put a light meter on the bottom zone under the monitor and see what results pop out in the detailed daylighting summary reports (LS-G, LS-J, ect.)
 I would like to compare Equest results to the results of other software/calculations/measurements I am investigating, however it seems that no light from the roof monitor is making it to the bottom zone.
 
The bottom shell is all one zone and the top is all one zone. I have found that it is necessary that the bottom zone have windows or else no daylighting dialog screen shows up in the DD wizard, and that means no light meter. At first I
 tried to make the top zone “open to below” and then in the detailed edit mode moved the light meter under the monitor, but the results do not indicate any light is making it from the roof monitor to the bottom zone.
 
I was hoping some of you might have some suggestions to help implement this roof monitor setup.
 
Thanks,
Aaron
 
Aaron Smith
Sr. Research Specialist
smitha11 at rpi.edu
 
Lighting Research Center
21 Union Street
Troy, NY 12180
p. 518.687.7167
f.  518.687.7120
 
 
 
 
 
 




 
 
 
 
 
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