[Bldg-sim] Binned weather data for US (not the equest weather file)

Chuck Khuen chuck.khuen at wxaglobal.com
Fri Jan 11 08:15:09 PST 2013


I agree with Joe's assessment here on the length of time for a TMY file. 
Since we construct TMY files on demand, we are actually thinking about 
making the number of years a user selectable variable..."Build from the last 
___ years of data".  Would that be useful?

Chuck

_________________
Chuck Khuen
Co-Founder, EVP
Weather Analytics
weatheranalytics.com
781-856-5383

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joe Huang
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:48 PM
To: Alec Stevens
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Binned weather data for US (not the equest weather 
file)

Here are my two-cents:

I think the idea of calculating design conditions or developing "typical 
year" weather data
using a long historical record, e.g., the past 30 years, needs to be 
re-evaluated in light of
global or regional climate change, as well as such irreversible trends as 
Urban Heat Islands,

Using longer time periods doesn't bring more accuracy in predicting future 
climate conditions
(after all, aren't we interested in only how buildings do in the future, and 
not the past?),
but only anchors us more in the past.

About 15 years ago, a meteorologist in ASHRAE TC 4.2 found that you need 
only 7 years
of data to overcome the stochastic year-to-year variations in the climate. 
Therefore, I feel
that it's best to use a shorter time period, more like the last dozen, for 
these purposes.

That's what I've done for the California Energy Commission in creating the 
new CZ2010 Title-24
weather files, and what I will be doing to calculate design conditions for 
the same locations.

There's also been discussion in various places on using GCM (Global 
Circulation Models) to
calculate future weather and then develop design conditions or "future year" 
weather files.
I find these  methods too hypothetical for my tastes, and I'm sure those 
skeptics out there
would have a field day if we were to use them, so my position is to keep 
doing things the
old way with the actual historical data, but shorten the time periods to 
something more
immediate.

Last year, I did a study of the savings for window awnings,  where the 
client asked me to also
do the simulations using the hottest year over the past decade.  The results 
were quite
noticeable.
The hottest year (judged by cooling degree-days) for 40% of the 50 US 
locations I studied were
in the last two years (2010 or 2011).  The cooling loads in many locations 
increased by 30-40%
(more in the north, less in the south).

Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
www.whiteboxtechnologies.com
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"


On 1/10/2013 1:03 PM, Alec Stevens wrote:
> Here's some food for thought (and sorry to hijack this thread):
>
> I was at an AEE meeting yesterday that included a discussion by a local
> meteorologist about the increased variability and extremes that are being
> predicted in weather models for the future (i.e. climate change).
>
> What is the feeling in the bldg-sim community as to how useful 1973-1996
> binned average data will continue to be when it comes to predicting 
> building
> operation, loads, and performance in a future that is expected to be more
> variable and extreme with regards to weather?
>
> Is anyone preparing a new set of TMY data with more extremes?  Are design
> day criteria being updated from the historical ASHRAE 1% values?  Will 95
> drybulb/78 wetbulb (for Boston anyway) no longer be the standard?
>
> Just wondering if our current methods of building simulation (and design)
> may leave something to be desired.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Alec Stevens
>
> DMI
> 300 Chestnut Street, Suite 150
> Needham, MA 02492
> p: 781 449 5700 x11   f:781 449 5710
> e: astevens at dmiinc.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jason Glazer
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:50 PM
> To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Binned weather data for US (not the equest weather
> file)
>
> The updated Engineering Weather Data to cover 1973-1996 and put it on a CD
>
> http://ols.nndc.noaa.gov/plolstore/plsql/olstore.prodspecific?prodnum=5005
>
> It is only $17 now.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On 1/10/2013 2:42 PM, Joe Huang wrote:
>> What do you mean by binned weather data?  Like what was in the Air
>> Force Engineering Weather Data manual from 1978?
>> You might check ASHRAE's Weather Data Viewer that can produce binned
>> temperature data for over 5,000 locations around the world.  It's not
>> free, though, costs $119.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Joe Huang
>> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
>> Moraga CA 94556
>> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
>> www.whiteboxtechnologies.com
>> (o) (925)388-0265
>> (c) (510)928-2683
>> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>>
>>
>> On 1/10/2013 11:48 AM, R B wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> Is there a way to get binned weather data for different locations -
>>> preferably free. A quick google search did not come up with anything
>>> concrete.
>>> Thanks
>>> -Rohini
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bldg-sim mailing list
>>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message
>>> toBLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bldg-sim mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
> --
> Jason Glazer, P.E., GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair Admin for 
> onebuilding.org
> building performance mailing lists
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to 
> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>
>
_______________________________________________
Bldg-sim mailing list
http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to 
BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG 





More information about the Bldg-sim mailing list