[Bldg-sim] IECC 2009 Section 506.6 Calculation Software Tools

Michael Tillou michael.tillou at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 10:57:15 PDT 2013


HI everyone,

 

Does anyone know of any simulation software that complies with the
requirement that software auto generate the IECC 2009 Standard Reference
Design without user intervention?  Are any software developers working on
this? 

 

I tried to do a quick scan of the most widely used tools but can't seem to
find any useful info.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Mike

 

 

Michael Tillou, PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C

Atelier Ten

 

T +1 (212) 254 4500 x208

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Bill Talbert
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 12:20 PM
To: Mike Karpman; Dennis Knight; Fred Betz
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org;
bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] [Bldg-rate] usgbc response to outdoor air question

 

Dennis,

Attached is an interpretation from ASHRAE indicating the area based
ventilation rate cannot be turned off during unoccupied hours (applicable to
2007 and 2010). Subsequently, ASHRAE is in the process of issuing an
addendum that does allow the area based rate to be turned off based on
occupancy controls. The addendum (also attached) went out for public review
last spring. I don't see that it has been published on the ASHRAE website
yet, so I'm not sure whether it has been fully approved by the committee
yet.

 

Also, in my experience, LEED (v2009) requires that the baseline ventilation
rate comply with the ASHRAE 62.1 minimum when DCV controls are implemented
in the proposed design for spaces not required to have it per 90.1. This
would be the only scenario where baseline ventilation rates differ from the
proposed (i.e. no energy penalty for over ventilating). This changes for
LEED v4 which used 90.1-2010.
Regards,

Bill

 


Bill Talbert  PE, LEEDR BD+C
Sustainable

 

AEI | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC.  
5802 Research Park Boulevard | Madison, WI  53719

P: 608.441.6677 | C: 608.234.3803  | F: 608.238.2614  
 <mailto:btalbert at aeieng.com> btalbert at aeieng.com  |
<http://www.aeieng.com/> www.aeieng.com  

 

 

From:  <mailto:bldg-rate-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-rate-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
<mailto:bldg-rate-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
mailto:bldg-rate-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Mike Karpman
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:00 AM
To: Dennis Knight; Fred Betz
Cc:  <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org;  <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org;  <mailto:bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-rate] [Bldg-sim] usgbc response to outdoor air question

 

Hello  All,

 

Please see the following relevant quote from 62.1 2010:

 

cid:image001.jpg at 01CEB608.8BB9B440

 

To me this implies that all of the requirements in section 6 (which include
both the area and occupant components) are only applicable "when [spaces]
are expected to be occupied".

 

Regards,

Mike

 

From:  <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
<mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Knight
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 5:47 PM
To: Fred Betz
Cc: Kevin Kyte;  <mailto:bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org;
<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org;  <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] usgbc response to outdoor air question

 

ASHRAE 62.1-2010 may be viewed online for free from the ASHRAE website at:
https://www.ashrae.org/standards-research--technology/standards--guidelines.
Its a little slow and painful to view and navigate since it is a free.

 

Also, all approved addenda may be downloaded in PDF from here:
https://www.ashrae.org/standards-research--technology/standards-addenda.

 

I reviewed both documents and did not see any rulings, interpretations or
addenda that would indicate that the area based portion of the ventilation
rate is required to operate 24/7 or during unoccupied periods.  If anyone
has a better resource than this please post.

Thanks,

Dennis

 

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Fred Betz <fbetz at aeieng.com> wrote:

My understanding is that for a 90.1-2007 outside air is modeled at the same
CFM even if it's beyond ASHRAE 62.1 requirements with no energy penalty.
However, this is no longer true in 90.1-2010 where the baseline is to follow
ASRAE 62.1. 

 

Also, I thought there was a ruling or interpretation to 62.1 that only
allowed the elimination of the occupant portion of the ventilation to be
shut off during unoccupied hours, but the area based outside air needs to be
maintained at night to handle off-gassing.  I believe the 90.1 folks are
still discussing how to incorporate this ruling into the standard. 

 

If you don't have more DCV than the baseline, just use show in a calculation
the total CFM and fraction of outside air for each AHU and show them the
total is approximately the same. There is some latitude here for rounding
errors and the like as some complex buildings may be off by a few percent.
If your proposed outside cfm is slightly greater than your baseline outside
cfm, then you should definitely be ok as your model will be conservative. 

 

Hope that helps,

 

Fred

 


Fred Betz  PhD., LEED AP RBD&C
Sustainable Systems Analyst

 

AEI | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC.  
5802 Research Park Blvd. | Madison, WI  53719

P:  <tel:608.236.1175> 608.236.1175 | F:  <tel:608.238.2614> 608.238.2614  
 <mailto:fbetz at aeieng.com> fbetz at aeieng.com  |   <http://www.aeieng.com/>
www.aeieng.com  

 

 

From: Kevin Kyte [mailto: <mailto:KKyte at watts-ae.com> KKyte at watts-ae.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:59 PM
To: Reba Schaber; Jim Dirkes;  <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; '
<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Cc: ' <mailto:bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] usgbc response to outdoor air question

 

Ok, so I received this comment.  The one with the provide ASHRAE minimums in
the Baseline for spaces with DCV.  I understand this is a generic comment -
Ok.  

However, LEED IEQ Credit 2 is not being pursued and the ASHRAE minimum
ventilation requirements are what is being Proposed for in each space that
has DCV.  

 

Does this not mean that the Baseline ventilation rate and the Proposed
ventilation rate will still be equal?

Not sure how to respond other than to simply say what is stated here.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

 

From: Reba Schaber [ <mailto:Rschaber at PHMECH.com>
mailto:Rschaber at PHMECH.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:42 PM
To: Jim Dirkes;  <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; '
<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] usgbc response to outdoor air question

 

RE:  ". . . can't find) anything in 621.1 which says that unoccupied
ventilation should be zero."

 

I think this requirement comes from the mandatory provisions of 90.1.

 

6.4.3.4.3 Shutoff Damper Controls. Both outdoor

air supply and exhaust systems shall be equipped with motorized

dampers that will automatically shut when the systems or

spaces served are not in use. Ventilation outdoor air dampers

shall be capable of automatically shutting off during preoccupancy

building warm-up, cool down, and setback, except

when ventilation reduces energy costs (e.g., night purge) or

when ventilation must be supplied to meet code requirements.

 

Thoughts??

 

Reba

 

From:  <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
<mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jim Dirkes
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 9:32 AM
To:  <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; '
<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] usgbc response to outdoor air question

 

Dear Patrick,

 

Thank you for sharing this GBCI response!  It is very informative and, while
I won't admit that I've been modeling anything incorrectly, I am going to
change a couple of things J.

In particular, I have heard on several occasions that the Increased
Ventilation credit was a clear case of "IEQ vs. energy"; you make a decision
to trade one against the other.  After reading the GBCI response below and
then double-checking with ASHRAE 90.1, I find that they are consistent with
each other and effectively allow no penalty for the increased energy caused
by increased ventilation.  Very curious, considering there is no science
which demonstrates a health benefit for outdoor airflows greater than that
required by ASHRAE 62.1!

The other item is that I failed to notice (and still can't find) anything in
621.1 which says that unoccupied ventilation should be zero.  I guess that
is OK, but is also curious, since a portion of the ventilation calcs in 62.1
include consideration for off-gassing materials (which are always present.)

All in all, I'm smarter than I was as a result of your post, so it's a good
day!  Thanks again.

 

The Building Performance Team
James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
1631 Acacia Drive NW
Grand Rapids, MI 49504
 <tel:616%20450%208653> 616 450 8653

 

From:  <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
<mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Patrick J.
O'Leary, Jr.
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 11:46 AM
To:  <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org;  <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] usgbc response to outdoor air question

 

back in september there was a thread about what the outdoor air rate in a
baseline simulation should be compared to a proposed simulation,
specifically when one is adding 30% more outdoor air to meet the ieqc2
requirement and earn 1 leed point.  there were differences of opinions about
the flow rates between baseline and proposed being either the same (as
required in 90.1 app g) or the baseline being the calculated per 62.1 and
the proposed being as designed.

so i submitted a support request to the usgbc and the reply i received is
below, but in short the response is that unless you're using dcv optionally
the outdoor air rates in the baseline and proposed energy simulations for
eac1 should be the same.  the response below gives the standard responses to
differing outdoor air rate scenarios.

regards,
patrick

[Fwd: Case 00531150: General LEED Questions

-------- Original Message --------


Subject: 

Case 00531150: General LEED Questions [ ref:00D49UeD.5004GN692:ref ]


Date: 

Mon, 17 Oct 2011 06:54:51 +0000 (GMT)


From: 

"No reply GBCI"  <mailto:no-reply at gbci.org> <no-reply at gbci.org>
<mailto:no-reply at gbci.org> <no-reply at gbci.org>


To: 

patrick@

 

Dear Patrick,

Thank you for contacting the Green Building Certification Institute. 

You ask very good questions related to the relationship between ASHRAE
Standards 62.1 and 90.1, and how these standards are applied across multiple
LEED Rating System prerequisites and credits.

The simple answer to your question is that, for systems without demand
controlled ventilation, the outdoor air included in EA Credit 1 energy
simulations must be the same in the Baseline and Proposed cases. If the
project is attempting IEQ Credit 2 Increased Ventilation, then the values
calculated in IEQc2 must be used in the EAc1 Basline and Proposed case
energy models. Note that IEQc2 does not limit the project to providing only
30% more outdoor air than AHRAE 62.1 Ventilation Rate Procedure minimums, so
higher amounts are acceptable, as long as they are modeled identically in
both the Baseline and Proposed case energy models.

The following generic LEED Review Comment applies to ventilation systems
that do not have demand controlled ventilation:

It is unclear whether the minimum outside air rates (in CFM) were modeled
identically in the Baseline and Proposed case for all zones not having
Demand Control Ventilation in the Proposed case. Please confirm that minimum
outside airflow (in units of cfm) was modeled identically in the Baseline
and Proposed cases using the proposed case rates. Additionally, please
verify that all systems in both the baseline and proposed case are modeled
with zero outside air flow when fans are cycled on to meet unoccupied
setback temperatures unless health or safety regulations mandate an
alternate minimum flow during unoccupied periods (in which case, the
unoccupied outside air rates should be modeled identically in the Baseline
and Proposed case).

The situation becomes a bit more complicated in you have systems that have
demand controlled ventilation (often implemented as Carbon Dioxide control
of outdoor air or as programmed control of outdoor air based on occupancy
sensors.) In this case the Baseline case energy model must include the
minimum outdoor air as determined by the ASHRAE 62.1 Ventilation Rate
Procedure calculations for all systems having demand controlled ventilation.


The following generic LEED Review Comment applies to ventilation systems
that do have demand controlled ventilation:

Demand control ventilation was modeled for credit in the proposed case.
Appendix G allows schedule changes for demand control ventilation as
approved by the rating authority (Table G3.1#4(Baseline)). As the LEED
Certification rating authority, GBCI requires that the outside air
ventilation rates for the Baseline case be modeled using minimum ASHRAE
62.1-2004 (or 2007 for LEED-NC 2009 projects) rates wherever credit is taken
for demand control ventilation in the Proposed case. The proposed case
minimum rates at design conditions should be modeled as designed. Please
verify that the Baseline Case model reflects ASHRAE 62.1-2004 (or 2007)
minimum rates for any spaces where credit is taken for demand control
ventilation, or revise the model accordingly. For all other spaces, please
confirm that minimum outside airflow (in units of cfm) was modeled
identically in the Baseline and Proposed cases. Additionally, please verify
that all systems in both the baseline and proposed cases are modeled with
zero outside air flow when fans are cycled on to meet unoccupied setback
temperatures unless health or safety regulations mandate an alternate
minimum flow during unoccupied periods (in which case, the unoccupied
outside air rates should be modeled identically in the Baseline and Proposed
case).

Finally, even though you don't address energy recovery in your question,
whether or not you have energy recovery in your ventilation systems may
affect how much better (or worse) your Proposed case energy models perform
in relation to your Baseline case energy models. 

The following generic LEED Review Comment addresses energy recovery in EAc1
energy models as it relates to ventilation systems.

Energy recovery is modeled for credit in the Proposed case. Please provide
further information regarding the energy recovery efficiency, verify that
outside air is modeled with zero flow in both the Baseline and Proposed
cases during unoccupied periods when fans are cycled on to meet unoccupied
setback temperatures unless health or safety regulations mandate an
alternate minimum flow during unoccupied periods (in which case, the
unoccupied outside air rates should be modeled identically in the Baseline
and Proposed Case), and indicate the bypass mechanism used to bypass the
energy recovery during mild conditions. 

I hope that helps, but if you have any further questions or concerns, please
feel free to use the contact form at http://www.gbci.org/contactus and
select "Follow up to GBCI Response," inputting your case number from this
email's subject line.

Best Regards,

Dan Katzenberger, P.E., CEM, BEMP, LEED-AP BD+C

Green Building Certification Institute 
2101 L Street NW, Suite 500 
Washington, DC 20037 
800-795-1746 (phone)
202 828-5110 <tel:202%20828-5110>  (fax) 
www.gbci.org/contactus

The text above represents a staff opinion of a particular issue, and does
NOT set any precedent to be upheld during a LEED Certification Review. For
official rulings in advance of a LEED Certification Review, customers should
utilize the Formal Inquiries process available in LEED Online that results
in a Project Credit Interpretation Ruling (Project CIR) and possibly a LEED
Interpretation (formerly CIRs or Public Rulings). Applications for LEED
Certification will be thoroughly reviewed based on USGBC Member balloted and
approved LEED Rating Systems, with addenda, and USGBC approved LEED
Interpretations, or Project CIRs administered by GBCI, as applicable. Please
note that certain inquiries submitted to USGBC are forwarded to GBCI for
reply as appropriate.


_______________________________
CUSTOMER EMAIL ADDRESS: 
patirck@

CUSTOMER INQUIRY:
I am trying to verify what the minimum outdoor airflow rate required for
EAc1 is and am not sure if this requires a CIR. 

If the Proposed outdoor air ventilation is a minimum of 30% higher than the
minimum required by ASHRAE 62 in order to achieve 1 LEED point for credit
IEQC2 is the Baseline outdoor air rate also 30% higher than the minimum
required by ASHRAE 62? or would the Baseline outdoor air ventilation rate be
the minimum outdoor air rate per ASHRAE 62 calculations. 

In other words, if ASHRAE 62 requires a minimum of 1,000 CFM of outdoor air,
and 1,300 CFM is provided to attain 1 LEED point via IEQC1, is the Baseline
outdoor air flow rate 1,000 CFM or 1,300 CFM in the energy simulation? 

90.1-2007/2004 both say the minimu    m outdoor airflow rates shall be the
same for both the proposed and baseline building designs, as does the user
manual. 

But this logic seems to reward the Proposed simulation by conditioning the
additional outdoor air supplied (300 cfm in the example above) to achieve
IEQC1 in the Baseline system as well as the proposed. 

The logic of using the minimum required in the Baseline case is reflected in
EAC1 in the equipment efficiency requirements. Baseline efficiencies are the
minimum required, e.g. SEER 13 for packaged units. 

It is the intent of the requirement that I am not sure is clear. Increasing
the outdoor air ventilation rate increases the energy used to condition the
outdoor air, so if the intent is to put the onus on Proposed design to show
energy reduction/LEED compliance over the 90.1/62 requirements shouldn't the
Baseline outdoor air be the minimum air flow rate per the ASHRAE 62
calculations? This puts the onus on the design team to provide a design that
compensates for the increase in energy to meet IEQC2 by providing some
method of processing the increase in outdoor air while still reducing energy
consumption.


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-- 
M. Dennis Knight, P.E., FASHRAE

Founder & CEO

Whole Building Systems, LLC

P.O. Box 1845

Mt. Pleasant, SC 29465

Phone: 843-437-3647

Email: dknight at wholebuildingsystems.com

Website: www.wholebuildingsystems.com

 

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