[Bldg-sim] Precipitation value in stat extension file.

Joe Huang yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
Fri Aug 29 13:13:52 PDT 2014


Mayank,

It would help if I knew the extent and purpose of your investigation into 
precipitation/rainfall data.  For example, what are the location(s)?  Is it related to 
assessing building energy performance, like for a green roof, etc.   Is it a hypothetical 
study for average conditions or a specific study of an actual building, time, and place ?

Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"


On 8/29/2014 8:13 AM, Mayank Bhatnagar wrote:
>
> Thank you for your valuable suggestions.
>
> Thank you joe, I am looking on source files for precipitation/ rainfall data.
>
> I hope, I will get your suggestions in future also.
>
> Regards,
> Mayank
>
> On Aug 28, 2014 6:26 AM, "Joe Huang" <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com 
> <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>> wrote:
>
>     Sounds liked you're referring to Precipitable Water, which has no relationship to
>     the actual liquid precipitation falling on the ground. PW is reported in the TMY2/3
>     weather files, mainly because it's used along with a few other arcane variables
>     (aerosol optical depth, albedo) in modeling solar radiation. These are all echoed in
>     the EPW, which content-wise is 99% identical to the TMY2/3s, but I can't think of
>     any reason why any of these variables would be used in EnergyPlus.
>
>     Another reason I'm doubtful of your explanation is that PW is typically reported in
>     depth (0.1 cm in the TMYs) and not pressure.
>
>     Sent from my IPad
>
>     Joe Huang
>
>
>     On Aug 27, 2014, at 3:59 PM, "Collinge, William Overton" <woc6 at pitt.edu
>     <mailto:woc6 at pitt.edu>> wrote:
>
>>     The variable in kPa is probably showing the total column water vapor. kPa water
>>     vapor divided by atmospheric pressure (101.3 kPa or thereabouts at sea level) would
>>     be an aggregate measure of absolute humidity i.e. an average over the vertical
>>     profile at some specific location.
>>
>>     Not sure what it is subsequently used for in E+?
>>
>>     *From:*Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>>     <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>] *On Behalf Of *Michael J Witte
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:52 PM
>>     *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Precipitation value in stat extension file.
>>
>>     Not sure what this section of the EnergyPlus stat file is reporting (will get this
>>     fixed or clarified)
>>
>>      - Monthly Indicators for Precipitation/Moisture (kPa)
>>                         Jan    Feb    Mar    Apr    May    Jun    Jul    Aug    Sep   
>>     Oct    Nov    Dec
>>                         1.4      1.6      1.8      1.8      2.3      2.6      2.9     
>>     2.8      2.7      2.2      1.8      1.3
>>
>>     But if you keep searching for "precipitation" you'll find what I think you're
>>     looking for
>>
>>      - Monthly Statistics for Liquid Precipitation mm
>>                         Jan    Feb    Mar    Apr    May    Jun    Jul    Aug    Sep   
>>     Oct    Nov    Dec
>>            Total       117      43       97       0        0        83       0       
>>     0        0        0        0        31
>>          Max Hourly    36       13       14       0        0        17       0       
>>     0        0        0        0        6
>>
>>
>>     That said, I would echo Joe's comments about using this information with caution. 
>>     Some data sources do not contain actual precip amounts but only a flag for raining
>>     or not raining.  The weather processor will fill in approximate precip amounts in
>>     that case.
>>
>>     Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 8/27/2014 12:50 PM, Joe Huang wrote:
>>
>>         Mayank,
>>
>>         You're right.  kPa is a unit of pressure, so somehow the header units you're
>>         using have been misaligned.  I won't comment on what you see in the EPW, but if
>>         you look at the source weather file, which probably uses a TMY3 or TMY2/IWEC
>>         format (the only ones I know that contain precipitation data), there are two
>>         columns for liquid precipitation, one for depth in mm followed by one for
>>         duration in hr.
>>
>>         Having said that, from my investigations in creating the IWEC2 weather files
>>         I've concluded that this way of reporting the liquid precipitation can lead to
>>         missing or double counting the amount of precipitation. The reason is that in
>>         the actual weather station reports, there may be multiple reports in one
>>         record, e.g.,
>>            100mm over the past 1 hour and 500mm over the past 24 hours
>>         as well as reports that overlap in time, e.g.,
>>            200mm over the past 4 hours
>>         followed several hours later by
>>            400mm over the past 24 hours
>>
>>         I've attached the brief-up about liquid precipitation from the IWEC2 final
>>         report with more details.
>>
>>         The other thing to consider is that if you're using a "typical year" weather
>>         file, the liquid precipitation on that file are a random selection and may not
>>         represent long-range averages.  Depending on your level of interest, it's best
>>         to go back to the source historical weather files such as those available at
>>         NCDC: www.ncdc.noaa/oa/climate/isd/ <http://www.ncdc.noaa/oa/climate/isd/>
>>
>>         Joe
>>
>>         Joe Huang
>>
>>         White Box Technologies, Inc.
>>
>>         346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>>
>>         Moraga CA 94556
>>
>>         yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com  <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>     
>>
>>         http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com  for simulation-ready weather data
>>
>>         (o) (925)388-0265
>>
>>         (c) (510)928-2683
>>
>>         "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>>
>>
>>         On 8/27/2014 8:59 AM, Mayank Bhatnagar wrote:
>>
>>             Dear All,
>>
>>             I am doing some analysis on weather file in which I need precipitation
>>             value in mm or  inches. However, when I look on stat extension file, there
>>             is monthly precipitation value in kPa. As I know 'kPa' is a unit of
>>             pressure. Please let me know if anyone has  conversion factor for monthly
>>             precipitation value from kPa to mm(inches).
>>
>>             The epw extension file has hourly precipitation value in mm. However, all
>>             the weather files do not have hourly precipitation values.
>>
>>             I'll be grateful if anyone can guide me on this. :)
>>
>>             Regards,
>>
>>             Mayank
>>
>>                    
>>
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