[Bldg-sim] sources for material libraries

Chris Yates chris.malcolm.yates at gmail.com
Thu Jan 16 14:16:21 PST 2014


LBNL WINDOW / THERM integration might be a good model to follow in this
respect (though I think there are some issues with the relevance of igdb
data).

Like Joe, I don't tend to work out thermal bridging.

Sent from my Android device. Please excuse typos, etc.
On 16 Jan 2014 17:07, "Joe Huang" <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com> wrote:

>  Chip, others,
>
> I was thinking along that line when I posted my comment on this topic last
> night.  What about proposing this as an activity to IBPSA World (?) where
> interested chapters in each country or region would compile their sources
> of material properties, and if there's sufficient interest, the properties
> themselves?  That would sure beat anyone in one place trying to compile
> data from the whole world, although some central coordination would be
> vital to make sure everyone is consistent in reporting their material
> properties.  I would also like to see that extended to commonly used
> calculation methods for heat transfer, such as for foundation heat flows,
> infiltration, and two-dimensional heat transfer. In my experience in China,
> every building energy code contains the same standard description of of how
> to derive equivalent U-factors for thermal bridging, which is a significant
> heat loss factor because 99% of the construction is heavy mass concrete,
> yet in the US only the real "nerds" ever bother with thermal bridging (even
> I don't! ).  I see many benefits from such an activity - (1) the local
> chapters would get clarity on what's different (or not) with the conditions
> in their country, (2) people working across national boundaries would be
> able to improve their modeling (I'm always bothered by people creating
> "ASHRAE-90" models for buildings in non-Western locations, as if all that
> differs is the climate), and (3) we might all learn something new and
> unexpected.
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
> Moraga CA 94556yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.comhttp://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
> (o) (925)388-0265
> (c) (510)928-2683
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
>
> On 1/16/2014 6:58 AM, Chip Barnaby wrote:
>
> All,
>
> For ASHRAE 1199-RP some years ago (2003 - 2004 ish) I scrounged around
> looking for material properties.  Attached is a summary of what I came up
> with for some common materials.  As you can see, there is quite a range of
> opinion for some properties for some materials (including cases of
> different values from 2 different places in ASHRAE HOF).  I do not know the
> source(s) of those differences, in some cases there are probably regional
> differences and/or changes over time.  Or maybe just bad measurements.
>
> Moisture content is another variable of which we are all becoming more
> aware.  Lab measurements vs. real-building situations.
>
> Updated versions of some of these sources are probably available.
>
> It would be an excellent project to build up a collection of this sort of
> info in some shared place, such as the IBPSA-USA Wiki (bembook.ibpsa.us).
>
> Chip Barnaby
>
>
> At 10:48 PM 1/15/2014, Christoph Reinhart wrote:
>
> Content-Language: en-US
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>         boundary="_000_1B23446CBF250648A2FC775DE3FE7E8037C14614OC11expo28excha_"
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> We are currently assembling a material library as a basis for energy
> simulations and the question came up which source we should use to describe
> the various thermal and optical properties of  typical construction
> materials? A natural answer seems to be to use the ASHRAE Handbook of
> Fundamentals 2009 Chapter 26 which lists such numbers. Are these the tables
> that “all” of you are using or am I missing an important resource? What
> about our Canadian, European and other international friends? Would you
> scorn at an ASHRAE library and rather use your own numbers? This data input
> is obviously tedious so we want to avoid having to do repeatedly.
>
> All the best,
>
> Christoph
>
>
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