[Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration

Paul Riemer Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com
Thu Feb 5 14:25:22 PST 2009


In my vernacular:
a pump that exists to push water through primary equipment (i.e. a chiller) is a primary pump
a pump that exists to push water through secondary equipment (i.e. a cooling coil in an air handler) is a secondary pump
a pump that pushes water through both generally does need a specific name because it is usually the only pump
but I see that my vernacular cannot adequately name the components in their example.

If you are trying to replicate their example, I think you would be better to go through the wizard choosing "Single System Pump(s) only " and describing only the CHWP-1 pumps.
Then in the detailed interface add your additional loops and pumps (CHWP-2 and CHWP-3).
I am done for the day, so good luck.
Paul




From: Karl Stum [mailto:kstum at summitbe.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:59 PM
To: Paul Riemer
Cc: 'Dennis Hunt'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration

Thanks, I can see your point when looking at the schematics. But, how do I reconcile the tree structure without two circulation loops with the DOE Topics Vol. 2, p. 312-313, merged and pasted below?
[cid:image001.gif at 01C987AC.75A14E00]

____________________________
Karl Stum, PE
360 573 5700 ofc
360 771 0918 cell
Summit Building Engineering
________________________________
From: Paul Riemer [mailto:Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:42 PM
To: 'Karl Stum'
Cc: 'Dennis Hunt'
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration

Karl,
Maybe you and I are on opposite sides of the naming convention too but I will offer my take on the naming issues.
In your first screen capture.  I would call the "Chlr#* (Screw) Pump"s dedicated primary pumps on implied primary loops and the "Chilled Water Loop" is a secondary loop with "CHW Loop Pump" the secondary loop pump.
In your second screen capture, I would still call the "Chlr#* (Screw) Pump"s dedicated primary pumps on implied primary loops,  the "Primary CHW Loop" is a secondary loop without a pump and your "Secondary CHW Loop" is a tertiary loop with a pump.
Good luck,
Paul


From: Karl Stum [mailto:kstum at summitbe.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:19 PM
To: Paul Riemer
Cc: 'Dennis Hunt'
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration

Paul,
Thanks for the response. Here's the tree structure. It only shows one loop. I really question the validity of what the Wizard is doing. So, I went into the detailed mode and created another circulation loop and set it up the way I think it should be, but if that is right, then the 100's of Wizard set ups by modelers everywhere are messed up, and I doubt that????  See the tree from the detailed set up I did in the second image below. The problem with that one is I can't get the one coil load to get off the primary loop and I don't trust it, if it is so different than what the Wizard sets up.

[cid:image002.jpg at 01C987AC.75A14E00]

DETAILED SETUP CREATING A SECONDARY CIRCULATION LOOP.
Now chillers are assigned to the primary loop, the secondary loop assigned to primary loop and loads are assigned to secondary loop (except when I assign the DDS(B) load to the secondary, it looks OK in the tree, but the schematic looses the secondary loop altogether??).
[cid:image003.jpg at 01C987AC.75A14E00]




____________________________
Karl Stum, PE
360 573 5700 ofc
360 771 0918 cell
Summit Building Engineering
________________________________
From: Paul Riemer [mailto:Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:07 PM
To: 'Karl Stum'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration

Karl,
EQUEST's pump & loop naming is unconventional and confusing.
I think you are have solved it and looking at the water side component tree view with all the +'s expanded should solidify it for you.
Let's just all be thankful that DOE2.2 gives us multiple loops and pump curves.
Paul



From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Karl Stum
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:41 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration

Chilled water primary-secondary loop configuration.
When using the eQuest Wizard and a primary-secondary chilled water pumping system is set up, I don't see the secondary circulation loop in the tree structure. Furthermore, per the DOE documentation, the chillers would be assigned to the primary loop and the cooling loads assigned to the secondary loop (DOE2 Topics Vol 2, p. 312-313), but the results from the Wizard show in the tree structure everything assigned to the primary loop, as does the output PV-A Plant Design Parameters report. In that report, the chillers do show term called  "(Run-around)" by their evaporators. Is this supposed to be what we would normally call the primary loop? Why aren't there two circulation loops showing up in the tree structure?
Thanks,
Karl
_____________________________________
Karl Stum, PE
Summit Building Engineering
2516 NW 91st Street
Vancouver, WA 98665
v. 360 573 5700
c. 360 771 0918
f.  360 573 5155
http://www.summitbe.com

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