[Equest-users] Warning: ECONO-LOW-LIMIT = *UNUSED*

[Anand.Varahala at us.schneider-electric.com]

All,

This is a professional listserv and we sure have the need to keep that in 
mind. Also, when we post questions, if we include the research we have 
already done, it will leave the responders with a reduced chance of 
"flaming", and can be helpful to other users as well.

That being said, Adrian, here is what I believe you need:



ECONO-LOW-LIMIT
for all economizer types, specifies a minimum temperature below which the 
outside air dampers return to their minimum position. If not specified, 
there is no minimum allowable temperature.
This feature may be useful when the building has a heat-recovery chiller, 
and it is desireable to run the chiller at low outside-air temperatures to 
provide space heating. It may also be useful for buildings having 
humidifiers, where the use of extremely cold, dry outside air to provide 
space cooling may actually introduce an energy penalty (but see 
ECONO-MIN-W for a better way to integrate an economizer with a 
humidifier).



Thanks.
_____________________________________________________________________________________ 


Anand Varahala, LEED® AP  |   Schneider Electric   |  Energy Solutions  |  
Application Engineer 
Phone: +1 (919) 227-3920  |   Fax: +1 (859) 962-4561  |   Mobile: +1 (919) 
720-0769 
Email: Anand.Varahala at us.schneider-electric.com  |   Site: 
www.schneider-electric.us  |   Address: 4917 Waters Edge Dr, Suite 270, 
Raleigh NC 27606 USA
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail 



----- Message from Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com> on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 
15:13:25 -0700 -----
To:
Adrian Gurga <gurga at illinois.edu>
cc:
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject:
Re: [Equest-users] Warning: ECONO-LOW-LIMIT = *UNUSED*
If you have an economizer you had better put the econo-low-limit 
temperature in. It is necessary. You can access help screens in DD edit 
also. Once again I encourage you to read the on line help using the pull 
down menu. I do believe econo-low-limit temp is available in the wizards 
too.


On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Adrian Gurga <gurga at illinois.edu> wrote:
Chris,
I understand. For some reason it appears that the wizards will sometimes 
generates a DOE2 input which doesn't include the econo-low-limit line and 
thereby generates a warning. I'm not sure what causes this to happen, but 
as long as the model runs without it, I won't bother. Thanks for direction 
to the DOE2 definitions file, that's the one I was looking for. It 
describes in detail what econo-low-limit is used for and it probably 
isn't relevant to my purposes.  I think we can call this case closed.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Otto Schwieterman <oschwieterman at fhai.com
> wrote:
I would tweak it in the detailed edit mode because it is very unlikely 
that you can get good results by simply using the wizard. There are too 
many major variables that you cannot change in the wizard. You might as 
well pick the cost/energy consumption via experience if you are not going 
to go into the detailed edit mode. 
 
If you simply need eQUEST to spit something out so you have results to 
show I would ignore the econo-low-limit but remember that the results mean 
nothing.
 
From: Adrian Gurga [mailto:gurga at illinois.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:38 PM
To: James Hansen
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Warning: ECONO-LOW-LIMIT = *UNUSED*
 
Excellent.  Thanks James.  And yes, it's up to us to figure out how to use 
it, which I think qualifies as "no support".  I'm sure the programmers 
responsible for the software are perfectly competent, and I did not mean 
to suggest otherwise.  I suppose what I really meant to say was that the 
software has no customer support, which is understandable because it's 
free.  
 
Now back to the model.  So one would have to go into the detailed mode in 
order to change this parameter?  If one was to work with a model only via 
the DD wizard as we sometimes do for order of magnitude estimates, would 
it be OK to leave ecnono-low-limit unused? or would this result in 
inaccurate results?
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:22 PM, James Hansen <JHANSEN at ghtltd.com> wrote:
See below.  Also, the technical support isn?t ?very poor?, it?s just that 
the people working on technical issues are actually programmers.  It?s up 
to us to figure out how to use it properly.
 

 
GHT Limited
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP
Senior Associate
1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200
Arlington, VA  22201-4749
703-338-5754 (Cell)
703-243-1200 (Office)
703-276-1376 (Fax)
www.ghtltd.com
 
 
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Gurga
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:13 PM

To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Warning: ECONO-LOW-LIMIT = *UNUSED*
 
Carol,
 
With all due respect, "Only to input the temperature and to look at your 
help screen." is not a complete sentence.  Please reply using English if 
you'd like to post on a listserv.  If you have advice on how to address 
this warning, please provide it.  Additionally, "Flaming" (
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flaming) is a behavior 
typically reserved for prepubescents on chat forums, not professional 
listservs.  Please show some professional courtesy in your responses. 
 Now, let's move forward amicably and discuss the actual topic of the 
post.
 
All,
 
We all know that as eQUEST is free software, it has very poor technical 
support which is why listservs like this exist.  Here is the research I've 
done so far.  Inputting a seach for "econo-low-limit" or even just "econo" 
in the eQUEST helpfile produces no results.  Are there "pull down help 
menus" which discuss this topic as Carol suggests?  If so, please direct 
me to them.  Googling "econo-low-limit" produces one relevent hit other 
than this listserv, a user poses the same question I have, but is issue is 
never resolved (http://www.energymodelhelp.com/SMF/index.php?topic=107.0
 ).  A search of "econo-low-limit" on this listserv will yield five 
results.  In four of these, "econo-low-limit" is simply listed as an 
input, in the fifth, it is suggested as a way of manipulating the model. 
 However, I cannot find anywhere on this listserv where the warning 
"econo-low-limit" = unused has been discussed.  Therefore, I assume it's a 
reasonable to post and and I hope it will be helpful to future users.  
 
I can't figure out where to specify an econo-low-limit in the DD wizard, 
if I need to go into the detailed edit to address this, please let me know 
where that variable is edited.  I have attempted to edit the files 
manually in notepad to specify an econo-low-limit, so far have had no 
luck, but truthfully I'm not too experienced with manual edits.  If anyone 
could provide some assistance with where to edit this parameter, it would 
be appreciated.  Alternatively, if this warning does not have detrimental 
impact on the outputs, I will just ignore it.
 
Thanks for your thoughts and comments.
 
-- 
Adrian Gurga
Smart Energy Design Assistance Center
University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign
www.sedac.org
(217) 244-4671
(800) 214-7954
 
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com> wrote:
That was polite, Jason. Users of this list need to be responsible enough 
to at least look at the pull down help menus before asking a question on 
the listserv, It is impolite and wasteful of everyone's time to not do so. 
I have sympathy for someone who is learning but if they really care to 
learn this skill and be in the business they need to learn to at least try 
to find the answers they need. Perhaps the college systems have changed, 
which would be a shame, but when I was in school I had to research and 
find my own answers. Since I'm older than dirt we didn't have listservs, 
Google, or any of those useful tools that now make finding answers so much 
easier.

I rest my case,

Carol
 
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jason Glazer <jglazer at gard.com> wrote:
Carol,

The eQUEST-user mailing list is for users of all experience levels:

"The eQUEST-users  mailing list is for everyone that uses the eQUEST 
program. Users at every experience level are encouraged to join this 
mailing list and share their questions and knowledge. Users of the DOE-2.2 
and D2Comply are also welcome. The mailing list will be a user-to-user 
support forum for eQUEST, DOE-2.2, and D2Comply."

We appreciate your contribution but please either reply politely or not at 
all.

Jason


On 8/26/2010 9:29 AM, Carol Gardner wrote:
Only to input the temperature and to look at your help screen. This is
something you really should be able to figure out yourself. If you can't
try another profession.

Carol

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Adrian Gurga <gurga at illinois.edu
<mailto:gurga at illinois.edu>> wrote:

   I am working with a model and am working with the following warning
   whenever it runs the BDL Load File Log

   Line  1336:  Warning Encountered:
      INPUT-TYPE COEFFICIENTS ..
     ECONO-LOW-LIMIT = *UNUSED*

   Any ideas?

   --
   Adrian Gurga
   Smart Energy Design Assistance Center
   University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign
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