[Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

[Carol Gardner]

Tim,

If your glass block is less than 5%, or whatever the % is in App G, then you
can justify ignoring it. Otherwise, I'd check out Win5 to see if they have
data for glass block. You can model your window using it and then import it
into eQUEST.

WRT using CAD or Revit or whatever. I actually watched a client spend about
a day importing his CAD drawing into eQUEST because it had a complex roof
and I swear I could have modeled it by hand in eQUEST faster. It's not that
hard and at the end of the process you know exactly where everything is
because you input the vertices by hand. Old fashioned, I know, but hey, I'm
just saying. When I use the Wizard to input my geometry I use the Above,
Next to, etc., feature and specify my exact location as 0,0,0. That seems to
help with the geometry when I get into DD edit. With the CAD drawing, see
above, I think it might be best to set the location of each shell as 0,24,0
or wherever the vertex actually is. I'd have to double check this.

I love the humor that's coming through lately with the information. Thanks
for the cartoon, Vikram, and the Somebody Stop Me file, Bill.

Carol

PS I'll look at your file later Omar. I hope you went to bed by now since
it's after midnight where you are.

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:13 PM, tim <tim.jgrier at fuse.net> wrote:

>  Why would solar heat gain be transmitted from an eave if I specified
> insulation on the attic floor atop drywall ceilings?  Wouldn’t it assume I
> have a vented attic?  I think in reality some heat would transfer anyway,
> albeit a very small amount.
>
>
>
> A bigger question for me is, should I model the windows that will be
> infilled with glass block?  I suppose I could if I had to since equest does
> it all, but again if I’m not even going for a ultra-realistic picture so
> much as I am a comparison, why bother?  I mean, it would only translate into
> a longer modeling process which will only hurt the image of the energy
> modeling industry as a whole, right?
>
>
>
> I do really like equest by the way for what it’s worth and glad to be
> using/ learning.  I am very new to it and I don’t mean any disrespect to
> those who have spent a long time with this software.  My experience is with
> other 3d computer modeling programs over the course of the past 15 years and
> I do know what it’s like to grit it out in the hard times.
>
>
>
> I just have always thought there’s something kinda funny when we try so
> hard to make something inside a little box look so real.  There’s a beauty
> in it, but then somewhere the rubber needs to hit the road as they say.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sami, Vikram [mailto:Vikram.Sami at perkinswill.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:41 PM
> *To:* tim; 'Bishop, Bill'
>
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> Interesting - because sometimes by trying to be too accurate you end up
> being less so. Tim - in your image, the roof surface overhangs on all side
> it looks like 2 feet). In reality the solar heat gain on those two feet are
> not really transmitted to the zone. In your eQUEST model it will be.
>
>
>
>
>
> It looks like its a plenum zone, so the impact is probably minimal, but its
> something to watch out for.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now let's beat this thing a little more and see if it runs....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image:
> http://dansemacabre.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/flogging-dead-horse.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
> *Vikram Sami*, LEED AP
>
> Sustainable Design Analyst
>
> 1382 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309
>
> t: 404-443-7462    f: 404.892.5823       e: vikram.sami at perkinswill.com
> www.perkinswill.com
>
> *Perkins+Will.*  Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tim [mailto:tim.jgrier at fuse.net]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:13 PM
> *To:* 'Bishop, Bill'; Sami, Vikram
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> Yep, I just gave up and rounded off distances and settled for a simplified
> roof.  After all, there are even slight discrepancies between masonry
> coursing dimensions & fractional feet.  Besides that, ASHRAE 90.1 G even
> says this is not an attempt to model actual energy usage, but rather to
> compare against the more widely used, typical systems (baseline).
>
>
>
> Attached is an image of the model that equest generated after my
> compromises – took about 10 minutes in the wizard – no dd editing.
>
>
>
> I believe you with the vertices & the text file editing an all, but if the
> point isn’t even to model the “actual” energy usage, then I say why bother?
> I can make a pretty accurate looking model in revit or sketchup or drawing
> by hand for that matter if you just want to look at it, but I’m thinking of
> equest as more of a tool just to get close enough to real world to get the
> numbers needed to find the percent improvement over the baseline and make
> the planet will be a better place to live.
>
>
>
> Even equest tutorials say this is “SIMULATION”
>
>
>
> tim
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Bishop, Bill [mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:48 PM
> *To:* tim; Sami, Vikram
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> Tim,
>
> Thanks. Yes, eQuest. You do as much as you can in the Wizard. I find I
> often have to modify roof surfaces in DD edit mode. I will usually create a
> new roof polygon by copying the polygon of a trouble roof surface, change
> the coordinates in the .inp file (unless it is a simple rectangle – I find
> the program is glitchy when you try to modify coordinates in a spreadsheet
> in DD edit mode) and save it, then reopen the eQuest model and assign the
> new roof polygon to the roof surface. Lather, rinse, repeat. Save often.
>
>
>
> Vikram,
>
> “Couldn't help notice - you seem to have the roof modeled as a wall (vertex
> input) rather than a roof (top of space). Is it simpler to do it that way?”
>
> Modeling a sloped roof is a judgment call. You have to decide if the added
> complexity will give you a significantly better model, or if the visual
> “wow” factor is worth it for impressing your clients. The wizard does a
> decent job at sloped roofs for simple building geometries. As far as walls
> vs. roofs, it seems to me that eQuest models them the same, except for the
> angle. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.) After all, you add both
> walls and roofs in DD edit mode by creating a new “Exterior Wall”. If the
> building geometry is such that you can simply select “top” for the surface
> location (such as the one roof surface on the first floor of my example),
> then of course that is easier.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* tim [mailto:tim.jgrier at fuse.net]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:18 PM
> *To:* Bishop, Bill
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> Wow Bill – that is cool – thanks for that.  Not sure I will be that adept
> after my 7000 square foot project, but it’s good to know the capabilities.
> This building was generated in equest?  I did find where you can change the
> pitch of the roof by degrees!
>
>
>
> I have never use revit with equest btw – I was just reacting bitterly to my
> first go at trying to use that interface.  I tried to customize zones and
> came up with some crazy thing that looked like a tree house for monkeys.
>
>
>
> Thanks for helping me believe.
>
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Bishop, Bill [mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:00 PM
> *To:* tim
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> Tim,
>
>
>
> Yes, you can do complex roofs if you work at it and nobody reminds you that
> you’re working on a deadline. (See attached.) Ditto Carol’s Revit comment
> and Lan’s simpler-is-better-to-a-point advice.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED® AP **|** Pathfinder Engineers &
> Architects LLP*
>
> Mechanical Engineer
>
>
>
> 134 South Fitzhugh Street
> Rochester, NY 14608
> T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114
> F: (585) 325-6005
>
> wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com
>
> www.pathfinder-ea.com
>
> P Sustainability – less is more.
>   ------------------------------
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Li, Lan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:42 PM
> *To:* tim; Carol Gardner
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> Tim,
>
>
>
> I think eQuest is an energy modeling program and we are more concerned in
> BTU/ton terms – or $$ at the end. If the roof was built somewhat differently
> by modeler as it was shown on architectural drawings, my question is only
> how much it will affect the energy usage. If it is a minor, I won’t drive
> myself crazy to make them same.  If you read Ashare 90-1, simplify building
> geometry for energy simulation purpose is allowed. Also when we model a
> building, we can have tons of inputs and lots of assumptions are made either
> by us or by the program itself, I think majority of them can have a bigger
> impact on our goal than build a prefect roof/building shell. I might be one
> of the lazy modelers. Hope you can enjoy eQuest a little bit more.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Lan
>
>
>
> *Lan Li, PE*
>
> *Mechanical Engineer*
>
> Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC
>
> 1540 Corporate Woods Parkway
>
> Uniontown, OH 44685
>
> Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123
>
> Cell: (330) 904-6292
>
> Fax: (330) 896-9180
>
> *lli at sbmce.com*
>
> www.sbmce.com
>
>
>
> Columbus Branch Office (614) 448-1498
>
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
> This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally
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>
> Thank you
>   ------------------------------
>
> *From:* tim [mailto:tim.jgrier at fuse.net]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:29 PM
> *To:* 'Carol Gardner'
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> If you’re complimenting me on my observation, my awareness must be at an
> all-time high today.
>
>
>
> How about a complex roof shape like the one attached?  Notice ridge lines
> don’t match and there is a gable at the porch end as well as the building
> end.
>
>
>
> Can equest do that too?  As long as one would put in the training time of
> course…
>
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Carol Gardner [mailto:cmg750 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:01 PM
> *To:* tim
> *Cc:* Omar Katanani; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> Well, at least your powers of observation aren't suffering.
>
> Yes, you can model individual ceiling heights per room. You can do almost
> anything once you take the time to learn how. What are the specifics of what
> you want to do: model a room with two different ceiling heights or model a
> bunch of rooms with one height and a bunch with another height? A picture
> would be great if ya have one.
>
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:56 AM, tim <tim.jgrier at fuse.net> wrote:
>
> Wow – I think I struck a nerve.
>
>
>
> On a related note…
>
> Does equest have a way to model individual ceiling heights per room?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Carol Gardner [mailto:cmg750 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:43 PM
> *To:* tim
> *Cc:* Omar Katanani; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
> I have got to protest this one, sorry Tim.
>
>
> Buying a Revit license to be able to accurately model geometry in eQUEST
> is, to be blunt, crazy. It's really pretty easy to revise your geometry and
> if you can't do that using one of the 3 methods I provided earlier, you need
> to figure out how to train yourself better or leave the field. It's not just
> a matter of being able to use eQUEST at this point, it's a matter of being
> able to generate an accurate model using any tool. Being able to import CAD
> or Revit data into energy models is a recent development. Frankly, I
> question it's utility, especially if people now think they have to use it or
> they can't model a building. Friendly front ends like eQUEST, DesignBuilder,
> etc., are great but you need to know how a building operates and how the
> systems work or it's just GIGO.
>
> Carol
>
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:29 AM, tim <tim.jgrier at fuse.net> wrote:
>
> Omar
>
> I haven’t had much luck with customizing spaces either.
>
> I think there is a way to import a revit model file into equest.  If I
> needed complicated zones & spatial geometry, I would probably consider a
> revit license, but with that come’s more money ($4-$6k for 1 standalone
> license) and possibly more training, but might save a whole lot of headache.
>
>
>
> Seems like equest is more of an energy modeler than an accurate building
> modeler.
>
>
>
> tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Omar Katanani
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:46 AM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> Once again, another problem!
>
> I have several spaces which were geometrically modified in the design. For
> example, a room that was split into two different ones; with each room being
> a different hvac zone. How can I possibly split a room into two zones "1"
> and "2"? Shall I modify the geometry of the old zone to be that of zone "1",
> and then add another zone "2" from scratch? If this is what should be done,
> how can I do this accurately?
>
> Attached is the polygon view of one of my floors. When you look at them in
> 2-D or 3-D views, the building seems perfect in shape. Notice the rectangle
> to the left of the picture! This is actually a zone that lies inside the
> building. But it appears like this in polygon view. I think it is some
> problem of coordinate references or so!
> So when I need to modify the geometry according to coordinates of vertices,
> I'm suffering!
>
> Many thanks!
> Omar
>
> ___________________________
>
> Omar Katanani
> Sustainable Design Engineer
> Email: omar at ecoconsulting.net
>
>
> EcoConsulting (Lebanon)
> Nahas Building, 4th floor
> 4 St-Maron Street / Georges Haddad Avenue
> Postal Code: 2028 5806 SAIFI
> Beirut, Lebanon
> Tel:       +961 (0) 1 971 255
> Mobile:    +961 (0) 3 045 045
>
>
> EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd
> 28 Marshalsea Road
> London, SE1 1HF
> Tel: +44 (0)207 939 0989
> Fax: +44 (0)207 939 0981
> Website: www.ecoconsulting.net
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Carol Gardner PE
>
>
>
>
> --
> Carol Gardner PE
>
>
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-- 
Carol Gardner PE
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