[Equest-users] U-Values
Nick Caton
ncaton at smithboucher.com
Wed Jun 9 09:58:09 PDT 2010
I feel like such a nerd...
Off the top of my head:
1.5 is the figure for interior lighting of retail, whole building method
0.5 is the figure for tradable car lot surface, exterior lighting
~Nick
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
From: Peter Hillermann [mailto:e190984026 at exchange.1and1.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 11:50 AM
To: 'Pasha Korber-Gonzalez'
Cc: Nick Caton; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] U-Values
Pasha,
You are absolutely correct. When I started this journey I was trying to
use "common sense design," which turns out not to be as common sense as
one would think.
As a side note for the project I'm working on does anyone know the
ASHRAE watt/ft2 count for a car dealership? Is it the 1.5 or 0.9, I hear
it all kinds of ways and I'd like to get some other opinions.
Thanks,
PETER HILLERMANN
peterh at westallarchitects.com
westall
architects
3404 pierce drive
chamblee, georgia 30341
o 770.458.4113
f 770.458.5352
c 678.898.2936
westallarchitects.com
From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:38 PM
To: Peter Hillermann
Cc: Nick Caton; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] U-Values
Peter et al,
Nick said what I was going to say! I'm guessing at this point that your
climate is fairly warm (i.e. Georgia climate) and that the increased
insul is like Nick stated (over-insulating) for the cooling aspect of
your model.
I had a project once on a college campus in Canada where the design team
did such a good job at thier ECM design stratagies that they
over-designed the building and moved the building characteristics from
being a heating dominated cimate building to being cooing dominated. We
(as the sim team) made the recommendations that they actually remove
thier ventilation heat recovery systems (completely) and lessen the
"thightness" of the envelope design so that the building could
experience some losses through the skin and balance out the energy use
of the building operations. This was the first time I've had to
recommend to "scale back" on the design strategies. (FYI-the HVAC was
tied to a geothermal loop that needed to have more balanced energy use
for it's proper operation. With too much cooling to the ground the
geothermal system was becoming unbalanced. For the real
simulation-techies, we then integrated our simulations with TRNSYS to
replicate the increasing ground temps that would be resultant if the
building energy was not better balanced in the design to work with the
geothermal system & well field.)
Just like for so many of us when this light bulb goes on we can really
see the value of energy simulation for aiding design choices and this is
when energy modeling is actually FUN! :)
pasha
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Peter Hillermann <
e190984026 at exchange.1and1.com> wrote:
To my friends on the list,
Those explanations have made perfect sense. Nick this too is the reason
I am absolutely enjoying it. I was just telling my boss how your
perception of design changes when you introduce what could actually be
going on. I love the analogy Nick posted about trapping heat in the
summer. It makes perfect sense because the more you insulate a building
the better it is at NOT transmitting heat energy. So you put 1 piece of
storefront on your building that introduces radiant heat to your floor
and you're cooking the inside or like you said one piece of equipment
generating enough heat and it won't let it escape.
Thanks Nick light bulb just went off.
Thanks,
PETER HILLERMANN
peterh at westallarchitects.com
westall
architects
3404 pierce drive
chamblee, georgia 30341
o 770.458.4113
f 770.458.5352
c 678.898.2936
westallarchitects.com <http://westallarchitects.com/>
From: Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:03 PM
To: Peter Hillermann; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] U-Values
Peter,
This is the exact reason I've come to really enjoy energy modeling.
Anytime you get results that you don't expect, whether your
preconceptions are right or wrong, you're bound to learn something -
sometime profound!
You must make the call on whether this makes sense ultimately, but there
are probably reasonable explanations for what you're seeing. It would
help us help you if you shared more, like what climate the building is
in, what systems you're using... etc. You will want to come up with
explanations, then investigate the model results to see if that syncs
with the behavior modeled.
As a start: R-27 is a high wall value - Note that walls/roofs can be
both over- and under-insulated. Likely, you're seeing gas savings from
losing less heat in the winter and thus having less heating load, while
simultaneously trapping heat inside your building during the cooling
months, increasing your cooling equipment loads. Hard to make more
specific guesses without more information.
Sidenote - take care that you're not skewing results by wiping out the
effects of wall studs when comparing a new baseline insulation value
(Re: Table A9.2.B, 90.1-2004/2007).
~Nick
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
<http://www.smithboucher.com/>
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hillermann
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:48 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] U-Values
To All,
I seem to be having some issues with my baseline design and my first
parametric run. (I am working in detail mode with INP file) When I make
my baseline wall value R-13 and change it in my run to R-27 my heating
(MBTU) load goes down by 4% however my electric rate (kWh) goes up 1%. I
don't really understand because I thought both would have gone down. Am
I doing something wrong?
Thanks,
PETER HILLERMANN
peterh at westallarchitects.com
westall
architects
3404 pierce drive
chamblee, georgia 30341
o 770.458.4113
f 770.458.5352
c 678.898.2936
westallarchitects.com <http://westallarchitects.com/>
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