[Equest-users] dd wizard - invalid argument

[Bruce Easterbrook]

I have been there more times than I like to admit.  I think you may have 
a geometry problem.  Shells above each other normally cause more 
problems than side by side.  I would think you are looking for a 
geometry conflict, ie shells intersecting, or bad vertices's.  A 3D view 
should confirm if you have an intersection problem horizontally.  
Actually eQuest doesn't care if shells are spread out improperly, just 
not intersecting.  Make a copy and go back into the building creation 
wizard, actions tab, building creation tab.  This could dump a lot of 
information you have input, like custom windows and locations, the 
reason I never input this stuff right away or much else.  You will be in 
the Project Navigator.  Get to page 2 of 25.  Also, print a copy of your 
building footprint from your cad file in the cad program.  Get into the 
custom foot print and start checking and itemizing major vertices's on 
the footprint.  Go to the zones and check as well.  One other thing to 
check is on screen 1 of 25, the box, "specify exact site coordinates" 
must be checked and your adjacent and vertical shells must be exactly in 
the correct spot.  I normally start with 0,0,0.  Everything has to be 
correct to 2 decimal places or eQuest will not run.  If a vertex is 
wrong you can double click on the incorrect coordinate and eQuest will 
allow you to edit it.  If you have vertical shells things have to line 
up vertically too.  In the custom building footprint screen you will see 
a tab, little book with a P on the cover in the top left corner.  Click 
on that and make sure your cad units correspond with the eQuest units 
and the cad origin is the same as in eQuest (0,0).  If that is all good 
then you are "just" checking, looking for a vertex error.  On a simple 
model maybe 500 points, lol.  Not funny when you have this problem 
though, even worse when you have thousands of points.  Snap in this 
screen is unreliable.  NEVER use snap to grid, always have this turned 
off.  Snap to cad first, snap to polygon second.  I always do this 
screen with a cad printout with vertices's marked on it and check as I 
go.  You would be amazed how often your snap point is incorrect.  There 
is no such thing as close enough in this screen.  I will say it once 
more, _if any point is out by .01 your model is toast!_  Any gap or 
overlap in any direction in the geometry will fry eQuest. You have to 
watch your Z coordinate as well going vertically.  Hence Carol(e)'s anal 
remark.  Screens 1 and 2 are the most important screens to your sanity 
and your model running!  I ignore everything else in eQuest, ie all 
defaults apply, until the model will run after these 2 screens.  Any 
other work is probably going to be wasted.  Do one shell at a time, make 
sure it runs and so on.  Then you can proceed to the Air System Types.  
Leave custom windows to the VERY last, this is a time trap.  You will 
have to go back to the navigator a few times, maybe many times, so there 
is no point inputing anything you will lose.  Good luck.
Bruce

On 14/06/2010 09:52 PM, Dahlstrom, Aaron wrote:
>
> Bruce -- read your whole response, since I'm still here at 10p EDT 
> working on the same model.
>
> I've rebuilt it from scratch with a whole lot more archive versions 
> along the way.
>
> Thanks for the geometry / reinitialization tip -- I'll be sure to run 
> it earlier next time.
>
> I definitely have roofs that are oddly shaped due to multiple adjacent 
> shells.
>
> I'll keep an eye on that too.
>
> *Aaron Dahlstrom , PE, LEED® AP*
>
> *In P**o**sse* -- A subsidiary of *AKF*| 1500 Walnut Street, Suite 
> 1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102
>
> d: 215-282-6753| m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF: 
> 215-735-7290
>
> e: ADahlstrom at in-posse.com | in posse web: www.in-posse.com 
> <http://www.in-posse.com/> | akf web: www.akfgroup.com 
> <http://www.akfgroup.com/>
>
> *From:* Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:bruce5 at bellnet.ca]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 14, 2010 9:50 PM
> *To:* Dahlstrom, Aaron
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] dd wizard - invalid argument
>
>     You did have an error in your electric rate but obviously if it is 
> not now involved it probably is not the main problem.  That leaves the 
> roof.  If you have several custom floors when you create them in the 
> DD wizard they will all have roofs.  If they are stacked you will have 
> embedded roofs if you have not gone in and removed them which you 
> can't do in the DD wizard.  They will only effect floor to floor heat 
> transfer and maybe eQuest will give them a solar load I don't know.  
> eQuest will run with them if they are technically (geometrically) 
> correct.  The problem is you can't see them in the 3D view if they are 
> covered by other floors and easy visual check to see if they are 
> geometrically correct is not possible.  That will cause eQuest to 
> crash.  You may be able to cheat a little.  eQuest will show external 
> surfaces in a red outline in the 3D view.  If this is may be your 
> problem go to the building shell tab to one of the floors and 
> highlight the roof in tree pane.  Switch to your 3D view and hold your 
> control key and with your left mouse held down rotate the 3D model.  
> It will switch to wire frame and the roof surface will be highlighted 
> in red.  I can't remember how to turn on the wire frame view but that 
> is possible to do as well.  Maybe someone monitoring this will refresh 
> my memory.  I think you have a roof geometry problem and geometry 
> problems are a pain in the ass.
>     The other thing I have noticed and I'm not sure quite why but if 
> there was an error and you have corrected it, the program may have not 
> actually accommodated the change yet.  My guess is, the program runs 
> in a linear fashion start to finish.  A change will probably get added 
> to the end of the program as a addition or change.  When the program 
> is run again it is using the original file and then the additions, but 
> the error is still there and the program hits it first and crashes.  I 
> have found when doing major changes it is best just to save the file, 
> close it and re-open it.  eQuest will then reorder the file and it 
> probably won't crash if you did correct the error.  Run a simulation 
> and you will get much better error messages as to what the problem 
> is.  I have adjusted my trouble shooting technique to this method in 
> the last few weeks and have seen many errors disappear once the file 
> is reinitialized.  It has saved many hours of banging my head on the wall.
>     This is not specifically for you Aaron, just a general observation 
> (tangent).  I have noticed a few guides in the last week or so to help 
> new comers but no one has mentioned reinitializing the project.  It 
> may be an obscure point but I think it saved me about 30% of my hours 
> on my latest project.  One of the biggest things with eQuest is to get 
> it running and keep it running as you build your model.  Start simple, 
> initially, heat transfer surfaces are important, zones are important, 
> windows are not, schedules are not, utilities are not, constructions 
> are not, layers are not, HVAC systems and their zones are not.  
> Geometry is CRITICAL.  eQuest will choke with a vertex error of .01, 
> Carol(e) is "anal on this point", lol, but she knows what she is 
> talking about.  She and Pasha both agree and no doubt will add wisdom 
> if they have any pointers to add.  I should add a plug for Nick as 
> well, another heavy hauler on this site with major experience beyond 
> his years.  Start simple, get the box(es), and surfaces correct.  
> Zones initially can be artificial with the future HVAC system in mind 
> _but also_ to assist with the geometry.  Specifically, in dealing with 
> other floors and roofs.  An un-named eQuest instructor will attest to 
> this, it is easier to manipulate your zoning to assist in your 
> geometry problems and put them together later to accommodate your HVAC 
> model than create the surfaces on the fly in detailed edit. Especially 
> with 40 students watching!  eQuest can be humbling even for experts.  
> NEVER get 30 hours in without testing and running it many times on the 
> path.  Lots of saves, build your files as well as the model.  The 
> simulation at this point is for confirmation your model is running and 
> for error messages.  A tiny error in geometry will crash the file.  
> There is no point doing anything but the bare minimum until the 
> geometry is correct.  It will crash your project with minimal error 
> messages, maybe none, eQuest will just freeze.  Once the geometry is 
> correct keep adding to the complexity one step at a time, test and 
> confirm, fix errors, save, then the next step.  I know it sounds 
> plodding, it is.  Methodical is a much classier word.  Efficient is 
> more to the point.  I contract so when everything blows up I don't get 
> paid.  I eat the hours for my mistakes.  In the end it is all similar, 
> whether it is the boss pounding on the door or the client, the 
> deadline has arrived, eQuest is not cooperating and you are ready to 
> toss the computer out the window, your name is mud.  Plodding is smart.
>     Sorry for the digression Aaron, the Voodoo thread was interesting 
> and I didn't get to add my 2 cents worth.  I was in a swamp with 
> alligators at the time.  On the other hand I did learn a lesson about 
> reinitialization.  You learn by doing and making mistakes.
> Bruce
>
> On 14/06/2010 06:43 PM, Dahlstrom, Aaron wrote:
>
> Bruce --
>
> The error shows up when I attempt to "finish" the DD wizard.
>
> When I look through the PD2 file and the INP file in Notepad, neither 
> have any explicit errors in them.
>
> The PD2 file does have -
>
> RoofZoneErrorCode = 4
>
> TOUPeriodErrSeas1 = " "
>
> I can get */into /*the wizard just fine, and all the data appears 
> correct. The problem is that when I "finish" the program crashes.
>
> I just experimented with removing the TOU electric rate, and again, 
> when I hit "finish" it crashes eQUEST with the error noted below.
>
> Thanks for trying!
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> *Aaron Dahlstrom , PE, LEED® AP*
>
> *In P**o**sse* -- A subsidiary of *AKF*| 1500 Walnut Street, Suite 
> 1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102
>
> d: 215-282-6753| m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF: 
> 215-735-7290
>
> e: ADahlstrom at in-posse.com <mailto:ADahlstrom at in-posse.com> | in posse 
> web: www.in-posse.com <http://www.in-posse.com/> | akf web: 
> www.akfgroup.com <http://www.akfgroup.com/>
>
> *From:* Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:bruce5 at bellnet.ca]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 14, 2010 5:21 PM
> *To:* Dahlstrom, Aaron
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] dd wizard - invalid argument
>
> It depends where you are in the process.  If you are getting a 
> detailed sim report it should open to the errors part of the report.  
> If you aren't that far open the project BDL or INP files with 
> notepad.  They will list warnings and errors as they are processed.  
> The error will be at the end, there may be contributing errors 
> before.  All it really does is tell you where it kicked out, but it 
> does provide clues.  When you run your simulation make sure the boxes 
> are checked so it will run through errors and warnings.  You get 
> better hints this way.
> Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.
> Abode Engineering
>
> On 14/06/2010 04:56 PM, Dahlstrom, Aaron wrote:
>
> Folks:
>
> I have gotten the following error several times on the same project.
>
> I have rebuilt the file from scratch already once, and I'm wondering 
> if there is another way to fix this error.
>
> Any idea if there are reports or INIs that I can view / modify to find 
> out where exactly this "invalid argument" is located?
>
> Thanks!
>
> *Aaron Dahlstrom , PE, LEED® AP*
>
> *In P**o**sse* -- A subsidiary of *AKF*| 1500 Walnut Street, Suite 
> 1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102
>
> d: 215-282-6753| m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF: 
> 215-735-7290
>
> e: ADahlstrom at in-posse.com <mailto:ADahlstrom at in-posse.com> | in posse 
> web: www.in-posse.com <http://www.in-posse.com/> | akf web: 
> www.akfgroup.com <http://www.akfgroup.com/>
>
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