[Equest-users] Understanding Floors

Pasha Korber-Gonzalez pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com
Mon Jun 21 16:43:44 PDT 2010
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Peter, I know you didn't say anything against the wizard.  I just inteded to
remind others that there is much efficiency in using the wizard inputs, and
I am continuously taught by others on new ways to use the wizard to increase
user efficiency. (Thanks Dan W.)

This whole forum is about clarification, so don't worry about getting too
bogged down with it. bWe all learn to be more clear in writing our questions
when we need help--it's part of the learning process...

pkg


On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Peter Hillermann <
e190984026 at exchange.1and1.com> wrote:

>  I did not say the wizard was useless… I just don’t want to confuse
> anyone. Attached is my model to give a better understanding of where I’m
> coming from. I have nothing against the wizard but I really don’t want to
> confuse any other users that are using the wizards. My questions are based
> on terminology coming directly from the component tree in detail mode. You
> will notice under building shell a child component for a floor is a space.
>
>
>
> Please do not misconstrue any of my comments as fact or that I know what
> I’m doing. I like many others am trying to learn the software on this forum.
> Again I mean no disrespect with any comments I make, they are just opinions
> and I’ll try keep them to a minimum.
>
>
>
> *From:* Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 4:57 PM
> *To:* Peter Hillermann
> *Cc:* Demba Ndiaye; Sami, Vikram; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> So Peter, when you say Floor, you are really referring to "Shell", which is
> what the right terminology is in terms of eQuest.  Note:  you can define
> multiple floors within a shell.
>
>
>
> The wizard is not a completely useless tool, and when you set up your
> buildings (i.e. building footprint & zoning) at the very least can be done
> super easy in the wizard.  Most of your detail work might need to be done in
> the detailed edit mode, but don't underestimate the benefits of the wizard
> inputs too.  Efficiency is key for both the building design and the
> simulator(s).
>
>
>
> pkg
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Peter Hillermann <
> e190984026 at exchange.1and1.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry wrong terminology. By space I’m going back to what I said “Floor.”
> When you open eQuest property tab for a designed floor it actually says
> floor properties. These define the floor to ceiling and roof deck heights.
> You can place multiple spaces in it and zones. All this applies to detail
> mode and not the wizards. All my models are created in detail mode I do not
> use the wizard for anything. So I apologize for any confusion.
>
>
>
> *From:* Demba Ndiaye [mailto:Demba.Ndiaye at setty.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 4:23 PM
> *To:* Peter Hillermann; 'Pasha Korber-Gonzalez'; 'Sami, Vikram'
>
>
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> Peter,
>
>
>
> What do you mean by “I can put more than 1 zone into a space”?
>
>
>
> Demba.
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Peter
> Hillermann
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 3:13 PM
> *To:* 'Pasha Korber-Gonzalez'; 'Sami, Vikram'
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> I can put more than 1 zone into a space. When you go to the HVAC tab it
> will show your building together within that space. The problem I had was
> overlapping zones, one stacked on top of the other with the same ceiling
> height so I broke apart my office into 2 different floors as you can see by
> the images. That’s where my question came from.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> *PETER HILLERMANN*
>
>
>
> peterh at westallarchitects.com
>
>
>
> *westall*
>
> *architects*
>
> 3404 pierce drive
>
> chamblee, georgia 30341
>
>
>
> o 770.458.4113
>
> f  770.458.5352
>
> c 678.898.2936
>
>
>
> westallarchitects.com
>
> [image: e-signature][image: USGBC-Logo]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 2:35 PM
> *To:* Sami, Vikram
> *Cc:* Nick Caton; Peter Hillermann; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> I'm with Vik- I thought it was only one space to one zone, but if someone
> has a new way of things, please share...
>
>
>
> pkg
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Sami, Vikram <
> Vikram.Sami at perkinswill.com> wrote:
>
> Nick,
>
> How do you group multiple spaces in one zone? I always thought you could do
> only one space per zone.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Vikram Sami*, LEED AP
>
> Sustainable Design Analyst
>
> 1382 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309
>
> t: 404-443-7462    f: 404.892.5823       e: vikram.sami at perkinswill.com
> www.perkinswill.com
>
> *Perkins+Will.*  Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Nick Caton
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 2:00 PM
>
>
> *To:* Peter Hillermann; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> Hey Peter,
>
>
>
> If by “stack” you mean place one space geometrically over another, the
> answer is yes.  If you mean to ask whether zones can group spaces in
> different elevations, the answer is also yes.
>
>
>
> However, I would like to hammer out your wording again to be sure we’re on
> the same page!  I think you meant to ask “Can you stack a space in a
> shell?”  Spaces are normally “inside” shells in a geometrical sense, as they
> are generally within the shell footprint/boundaries.
>
>
>
> Zones, in contrast, have nothing to do with geometries – they are simply
> groupings of spaces with some extra HVAC/airflow properties tacked on.
> Those spaces could be all over the place – at different elevations, within
> different shells… pretty much any combination from my experience.
>
>
>
> Best of luck!  If you are getting tripped up, remember a picture is worth a
> thousand questions (?)…
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
> PS to all:  The SD/DD Wizards are, in my mind, kinda misleading with regard
> to helping new users understand the distinction between “space” & “zone.”
> Some work in detailed mode will eventually lead you to understand, but the
> Wizard screens inconsistently interchange the terms and may cause others
> confusion in the long run… See my description below for a simple breakdown
> if you are cutting your teeth on eQuest ;).
>
>
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.*
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> *Check out our new web-site @ *www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* Peter Hillermann [mailto:peterh at westallarchitects.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 12:40 PM
> *To:* Nick Caton; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
>
>
> Thanks again. Can you stack a space in a zone?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> *PETER HILLERMANN*
>
>
>
> peterh at westallarchitects.com
>
>
>
> *westall*
>
> *architects*
>
> 3404 pierce drive
>
> chamblee, georgia 30341
>
>
>
> o 770.458.4113
>
> f  770.458.5352
>
> c 678.898.2936
>
>
>
> westallarchitects.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 12:33 PM
> *To:* Peter Hillermann; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> Peter, I think you might be leading yourself into some unnecessary
> confusion with your word choices…
>
>
>
> eQuest has 3 distinct entities:
>
> -          *Shells* are simply groups of spaces
>
> -          *Spaces* are geometrical volumes, which may or may not have
> floors, walls, ceilings, windows, etc. tied to them.  Internal loads /
> daylighting / occupancies are attributed to spaces.
>
> -          *Zones* are simple entities that include one or more spaces,
> with additional HVAC attributes like thermostat and airflow specifics.
>
>
>
> You’re using “floors” to interchangeable discuss all the above, it seems.
> For clarity when discussing eQuest, “floors” are merely the constructions we
> walk on, normally one attribute of a “space.”
>
>
>
> All that said, it’s entirely possible to model a “box within a box,” as
> you’re describing.  You are limited in the wizards (by their nature) with
> regard to defining zones/footprints… the best approach depends on the nature
> of the space footprints you want to model.  If it’s very simply two stacked
> cubes enclosed within a larger cube, I’d personally model one shell, with
> one space carved out of the middle.  Then I’d use the detailed mode to
> shrink that space volume and partition/ceiling dimensions to match the first
> floor office, then copy the entire space and its componenents for the second
> floor.  I’d adjust the largest cube’s volume (it’s a space property) to
> correct the conditioned volume, and be sure all partitions are correctly
> associating the three spaces together…  With all spaces sorted out, ensure
> your three spaces are correctly grouped with regard to “zones,” for
> association with your HVAC system(s).
>
>
>
> Clear as mud =)?
>
> * *
>
> *~Nick*
>
> * *
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.*
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> *Check out our new web-site @ *www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Peter
> Hillermann
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2010 10:56 AM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Understanding Floors
>
>
>
> To All,
>
>
>
> I just want to make sure I understand the properties behind floors. If you
> have a square building volume with a smaller square inside it that has 2
> levels. EG:- an atrium as main space with 2 levels that are offices. There
> will be a total of 3 floors in your model. Atrium floor, first floor office
> and second floor office. Each of these will have a designated floor to floor
> height. You cannot put one zone inside another on the same floor.
>
>
>
> Is this correct?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> *PETER HILLERMANN*
>
>
>
> peterh at westallarchitects.com
>
>
>
> *westall*
>
> *architects*
>
> 3404 pierce drive
>
> chamblee, georgia 30341
>
>
>
> o 770.458.4113
>
> f  770.458.5352
>
> c 678.898.2936
>
>
>
> westallarchitects.com
>
> [image: e-signature][image: USGBC-Logo]
>
>
>
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
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