[Equest-users] [Bldg-sim] Process Equipment Power Consumption

[Austin Hermsen]

Has anyone looking at the COMNET recommendations. They are trying to provide
a more comprehensive guide for energy modeling. They include a lot of
recommendations on plug load density and scheduling. The recommendations
appear to be a combination of the 90.1 users manual, ACM and their own
recommendations.
http://www.imt.org/comnet.html

In general I think it makes more sense to consistently apply reasonable plug
load assumptions rather than chase 25%.

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com> wrote:

> So sorry! The user is the only one who accounts for anything.
> DOE2/eQUEST/EnergyPlus are all just tools. The schedules found in DOE2 are
> just *advice and suggestions.* (user beware! GIGO can happen). We the
> modelers, and Demba, I mean you no disrespect at all, are responsible to
> review and revise these suggestions.
>
> I am so outdated, I remember when we had to create each and every schedule
> on our own in BDL. Now that would be an energy modeling competition I'd be
> interested in IBPSA.
>
> Love to all,
> Carol
>
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Demba Ndiaye <Demba.Ndiaye at setty.com>wrote:
>
>>  The schedule, with multipliers (fractions), as found in DOE-2 for
>> example, will have in fact already accounted for both run time and
>> diversity.
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________
>>
>> Demba NDIAYE
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Carol Gardner
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:04 PM
>> *To:* Yuvaraj Saravanan
>> *Cc:* eQUEST Users List; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power
>> Consumption
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not believe we are double discounting. Try this: think of when you
>> turn your computer on and off however you do so during the day, lets say on
>> at 9 am off at noon on at 1 pm off at 5 pm. That is your schedule. Now think
>> of how when you walk away from your computer for any length of time and it
>> goes into sleep mode, that's your diversity.
>>
>> Comments, thoughts are welcome. Is this what you were maybe getting at
>> with the multiplier, Nick.
>>
>> Waiting to learn more,
>> Carol
>>
>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Yuvaraj Saravanan <
>> Yuvaraj.Saravanan at arup.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Carol,
>>
>> This question is not specific to equest. Would you apply a diversity as
>> well as a schedule for process load? I thought by applying a schedule we are
>> accounting for diversity. By applying a diversity and then a schedule are we
>> not double discounting the load?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Yuvaraj
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Carol Gardner
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:15 PM
>> *To:* Gaurav Mehta
>> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption
>>
>>
>>
>> Whenever you have an equipment, aka process, load it is proper to apply
>> first a diversity factor, aka % on at one time, and then a schedule. Whether
>> your building is new or existing doesn't matter. This is an Art not a
>> Science. Experience is the primary teacher. You can always ask us old farts.
>> We are relevant and have information that one only can get with time. Yours
>> to chose to listen to or not.
>>
>> Peace out,
>> Carol
>>
>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Gaurav Mehta <gmehta75 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Please refer to the Chapter 18, Nonresidential Cooling and Heating Load
>> Calculations of the 2009 ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Gaurav Mehta
>>
>> Stantec
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Walson, Kristy" <kristy.walson at tlc-eng.com>
>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:29
>> To: <omoltay at mimtarch.com>; <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Omer,
>>
>> On recent projects, I have had to pay more attention to the process loads
>> for the types of equipment you mentioned below.  In the past, I would just
>> ensure that my process energy cost was 25% of the total energy cost because
>> I knew that the types of buildings I was modeling (commercial offices,
>> mostly) would never have an actual process load even close to 25%.
>>
>> However, recently I have been modeling process loads in a more exact way.
>> What I do is I take the kW rating of the equipment, then I talk to the
>> electrical engineer to get an idea of whether that equipment will ever run
>> at its rated load and, if not, I apply the appropriate reduction to it based
>> on what the electrical engineer says.
>>
>> Once I have this maximum energy use for process loads in the building, I
>> then create a custom schedule for this process energy.  Sometimes I need to
>> create more than one custom schedule based on the type of equipment in the
>> space.  This can become very tedious if you get too far into the weeds, so I
>> try to keep the schedules realistic, but simple and I keep the number of
>> different custom schedules I create to a minimum.  As we all know, you can
>> never know the actual occupancy and use schedule of a building until it is
>> occupied for a certain period of time, so keep your assumptions simple and
>> logical.
>>
>> I'd love to hear what other folks are doing if it differs from my process.
>>
>> Kristy Walson, PE, LEED AP
>> Mechanical Engineer / Sustainable Design
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of
>> omoltay at mimtarch.com
>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:46 PM
>> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>> Subject: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> One of the things that cause most trouble for us in modelling is the power
>> consumption of equipment such as dishwashers, ovens, food warm-up
>> equipment and so on that have varying levels of power consumption during
>> operation (even PCs and laptops). We are sometimes using nameplate
>> installed kW values, but deep inside we know that this is quite wrong -
>> but we have no other more reliable source / guideline for such equipment.
>> I would appreciate any feedbacks on how others are modelling such
>> equipment.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Omer Moltay, LEED AP
>> Mimta
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Equest-users mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>> _______________________________________________
>> Equest-users mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Equest-users mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>> Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup  business
>>
>> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Equest-users mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20100505/cd1b8073/attachment-0001.htm>