[Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to modelquestion

[Paul Brooks]

I would also like to publically comment Pasha on her skills.  We had a wonderful conversation, she got me over the roadblocks I had.  I am sure I will be posting again soon on the next set of roadblocks, but Pasha got me rolling again.

Agreed, we are a set of professionals that need to work together to ensure we all can provide a quality service to our clients.  Doing so will help us all do a better job, and advance our service offerings.

Pasha, thank you again.




________________________________
From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com>
To: "Eurek, John S NWO" <John.S.Eurek at usace.army.mil>
Cc: Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>; Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com>; Matthew Dubrovich <mdubrovich at emcengineers.com>; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 2:17:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to modelquestion


:)  Thanks John--I'll send your tip in the mail.   

Actually its nice to see that there are very few degrees of separation between all of us.  Carol has helped me, I've shown her a few tricks, and the circles just keep going between all of us.  It is our duty as professionals to share our experiences and learn from each other only to better the industry and educate our clients to the true value (and skills) that are needed to provide quality simulation services.

We are all just trying to save our planet and improve the quality of life on it.  

Pasha  :)


On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Eurek, John S NWO <John.S.Eurek at usace.army.mil> wrote:


>I have talked to and received help from Pasha Korber-Gonzalez.  I really
>found her helpful (and a pleasure to talk with)
>
>(A plug for her was the least I could do)
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Paul Brooks
>
>Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:44 AM
>To: Carol Gardner; Matthew Dubrovich
>Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to
>modelquestion
>
>Carol:
>
>I agree, and I am trying to digest all the info I am getting, and also plan
>on taking Pasha up on the offer of a phone call.  I also sent an email to
>Marlin, (trainer I had for eQuest).
>
>The building is still on the drawing obpards, and is to be built in a
>duty-free office park in Montevideo, Uruguay.  I am in Richmond, VA.
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com>
>To: Matthew Dubrovich <mdubrovich at emcengineers.com>
>Cc: Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
><equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
>Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 12:18:50 PM
>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to model
>question
>
>
>Hi Paul,
>
>I think Matt is on to something. It does have options for both and you can
>use Equip Control and maybe Load Management commands. This is heady stuff for
>a newbie, however, so I would suggest you hire someone to do a peer review
>with you or to work with you.
>
>So, this is an existing building, right? You will also need to bill match,
>etc. Where do you actually sit? In Uraguay?
>
>Carol
>
>
>On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Matthew Dubrovich
><mdubrovich at emcengineers.com> wrote:
>
>
>       Hi Paul,
>
>
>
>       Though I haven't had the opportunity to use either yet, eQuest has
>options for both heat recovery chillers and heat pump chillers, correct?  You
>can tie the heat recovery chiller into your hot water loop and it should show
>both a heating savings and condenser fan savings (eliminating those hand
>calcs hopefully).  The heat pump chillers can be sequenced through Equipment
>Controls and Load Management to only come on as necessary, after the 165 ton
>chiller is maxed out.  Coupling the heat pumps with your hot water system may
>be more of a challenge.  Good luck.
>
>
>
>       Matt
>
>
>
>       From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Paul Brooks
>       Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:26 AM
>       To: Carol Gardner
>
>       Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
>       Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump
>to model question
>
>
>
>       Yes, I did.
>
>
>
>       Yes, it is an air-cooled Trane Chiller that has total energy
>recovery.  It is a non-US product, made by Trane in Europe.
>
>
>
>       The concept is that the chiller provids chilled water, and the energy
>recovery side provides hot water for reheat at VAV boxes when needed.
>
>
>
>       In addition, there are two heat pumps (reversible chillers as the
>liturature says)that will pprovide additional capacity to etther the chilled
>water loop or the hot water loop as needed.
>
>
>
>       This is for a 110,000 sf high end office building in Uruguay.
>Uruguay is ASHRAE climate zone 3, similar to the US southeast, primarily
>Georga/northern Florida.
>
>
>
>       Links to product information:
>
>
>
>       Chiller with energy recovery:
>http://doc.trane-eur.com/marketing/cdtrane.nsf/PdfByName/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf/$file/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf
>
>
>
>       Heat pumps:
>http://doc.trane-eur.com/Marketing/CdTrane.nsf/PdfByName/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf/$file/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf
>
>
>
>       I am thinking i will need to do a lot of hand calcs for energy use of
>the chiller and how much "free" heating water I will get.  the hard part is
>going to be how to account for saving by not running condenser fans.  Yes, it
>will be a challenge to get it through GBCI review, but if the logic is sound,
>it will not be that hard.
>
>
>
>       Any suggestions on how to wet up a model in eQuest to minimize amount
>of hand calculations?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
>       From: Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com>
>       To: Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>
>       Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>       Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:54:56 AM
>       Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump
>to model question
>
>       It looks like you stunned everyone into silence, Paul.
>
>       So you have 1) an air cooled chiller, 2) heat recovery sending HW to
>only your reheat coils, 3) 2 air cooled heat pumps that can also provide cool
>or hot water to circulation loops, 4)  french hens, and a partridge in a pear
>treee...OOPS, its late!
>
>       This looks like entropy to me. Try once more to share all of this. I
>would suggest an itemized list that identifies the equipment type, it's
>specific use, it's model no. etc. and any comments. Maybe an excel
>spreadsheet would work best.
>
>       Another issue: this project will be neigh on impossible for a LEED
>reviewer to review, too. That is neither good or bad, it just is.
>
>       I will help you as I can, when I can, but I must work for food too.
>Nobody pays me, yet, to help anyone.
>
>       Keep the faith,
>       Carol
>
>       On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>       I am modeling a building in Uruguay that has a Trane 165 ton Air
>cooled chiller, (RTAD 165 SE, not available in US.)  In addition to
>air-cooling, the chiller has a heat exchanger to recover heat for whatever
>use you want.   Obviously the heat recovery means that in the right
>condisitons the condenser fans will not run as much.
>
>
>
>       For this application, the heat is to be recovered to provide heating
>hot water VAV box re-heat coils.  In addition to this, there are two air
>cooled heat pumps (CXAN 214, not available in US) that are available to
>augment the chiller or the hot wateer loop.
>
>
>
>       So, my dilemma, is how to model this in eQuest. I am still more or
>less a novice user.  I am in the detail mode, and see that I can do some
>things with condenser water, but then how do I model the condenser fans?  How
>do I tie in the heat pump loops?
>
>
>
>       Lastly, this is a LEED model.  So, any thoughts on how to get data
>and then do hand calcs to prove savings are also welcome.
>
>
>
>       Thanks!
>
>
>
>       If interestede in seeing info on the equipment, go to Trane-eur.com
><http://trane-eur.com/> .  information is available in english for these
>
>models. Your local trane rep will probably not be able to help.
>
>
>
>
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