[Equest-users] Incentives for NU Modelers and LEED APs

[Nick Caton]

As neither a PE (yet) nor a BEMP, I can offer some thoughts/suggestions
from the sidelines =).

 

-          A BEMP certification is certainly a more applicable
qualification than having a PE seal from a model-reviewing standpoint.
That said, there is a much smaller pool of BEMP reviewers out there, and
the desire for a certain quality standard in model reviews needs to be
weighed against the availability of the "BEMP reviewership" out there.

-          179D's tax deduction precedent, which permits locally
licensed contractors in addition to PE's involved in the work to
produce/certify the calculations, better encompasses the range of
commercial work out there on a national level (retrofit upgrades and the
like) which may not locally require an Engineer's seal.

-          The suggestion that no certification (BEMP or PE) ought to be
required of those compiling the incentive documentation is not a bad
idea, provided the utility can manage or sub-contract out the
spreadsheet/model/calculation review to those with the desired
qualifications... see my next bullet.  Any such requirement will likely
have some impact on how widely the incentive program is considered and
pursued by building owners.

-          One of our local utilities has a similar incentive program,
but they are much less open about who can certify the model/calculations
submitted.  They privately hire out and take on the costs of such review
as part of the incentive program's costs, so while it's no cost to
submit, it's not up to the contractor/engineers seeking to achieve the
incentives to decide who's doing the reviewing.  Consider that food for
thought.

-          Also concurring this discussion would be better-situated in
[bldg-sim], but perhaps this is a wide enough audience based on the
quick responses =).

 

I can address the AE PE as I'm studying right now for April:  Those
considering or studying for the Architectural Engineering (AE) PE exam
will find experience in building energy modeling, and particularly the
inter-discipline communication and design experience/understanding that
stems from energy modeling, is pretty helpful.  Energy modeling
experience isolated from building system design experience probably
won't cut it, however.

 

The AE exam is unique to the other PE exams in that:

-          Every single question is directly related to the building
industry - no questions about the airspeed velocity of an unladen
swallow.

-          The exam is  very much cross-discipline: questions cover
mechanical, electrical, plumbing structural design; envelop analysis,
and project management / construction administration

-          There are also some inter-disciplinary questions (i.e. how
lighting loads can affect cooling capacities and how fenestration
layout/shading affects lighting/HVAC) which require knowledge in more
than one area.  These questions are a piece of cake for those practiced
in energy modeling.

-          If you practice energy modeling and seek to really understand
what you're doing, you'll be forced to understand some fundamentals that
the average MEP consultant won't need to be rock-solid on to do his/her
job well, and that may put you at an advantage for the AE PE.

 

I would not conclude an AE PE would be any better/worse-qualified than
an EE or ME PE for model reviewing however.  Having a PE of any sort is
no guarantee of the modeling experience necessary for a quality review.

 

~Nick

 

 

 

NICK CATON, E.I.T.

PROJECT ENGINEER

Smith & Boucher Engineers

25501 west valley parkway

olathe ks 66061

direct 913 344.0036

fax 913 345.0617

www.smithboucher.com 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Pasha
Korber-Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:59 AM
To: Paul Diglio; eQUEST Users List
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Incentives for NU Modelers and LEED APs

 

 

I too think you are right to do this, and should post on the other
bldg-sim, and maybe all the other lists too.   This is a HUGE mistake
and detriment to all simulators, and it is an insult to us experienced
simulators to dictate that a PE has to review the sims...majority of the
PE's I know and work with are not simulators and know very little about
simulation, let alone enough to review one properly--which is why I'm
getting hired by them because I know simulation(s).  I would sooner
trust a non-PE with direct simulation experience over a PE with little
sim experience to review my own models...

 

Also I agree with David, and I will recommend to the contact you
provided, that the BEMP certification is a much better measure of true
simulation understanding, experience, and knowledge for review of
simulations.   I think of the BEMP as the 'PE' for simulators--if
someone can achieve the BEMP certification, at this point in time it is
a better qualifier for simulation experience and knowledge than a PE
would anyday---are there even any question on building energy simulation
on the MECH PE exam?   Maybe there are sim questions on the new ARCH ENG
PE exam for building designers?  Does anyone know?

 

There is likely to be much BIGGER issues with the quality of simulations
that woud be submitted if they are being reviewed by inexperienced PE's
who are dictating changes to the model that wouldn't be appropriate
based on the software limitations that are so inherent in all of the
whole building simulation programs that are on the market currently.  It
is less likely for a random PE to be aware of these software limitations
than a BEMP.

 

 

Pasha

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

I realize that this message might not be appropriate to the forum, but
it is the only way I know to contact the other simulators that will be
affected by Northeast Utilities modeling requirements. NU covers CT and
Western Massachusetts.

Some of you might know that NU is offering sizable incentives for
modeling, improvements over ASHRAE 90.1 and LEED certification.

The program is new for 2011 and NU just made the decision that the model
has to be review and approved by a PE, any PE.  Even if LEED approves
your application, it still needs to be vetted by a PE to qualify for an
incentive.

If you are unhappy with this decision and find it is discriminatory,
please e-mail James Motta mottaj at NU.com.

Thank you,

Paul Diglio


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