[Equest-users] Window "Curb"

Bishop, Bill wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com
Wed Jan 5 11:39:26 PST 2011
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Alex,
One idea - does the roof surface with the skylight belong to a plenum,
or unconditioned space? Building coincident peak loads shown on LS-C do
not include plenums or unconditioned spaces.
Regards,
Bill
 
William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED(r) AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects
LLP
Mechanical Engineer
 
 134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114            F: (585) 325-6005
wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com           www.pathfinder-ea.com
<http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/> 
P   Sustainability - the forest AND the trees. P 
________________________________

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Alex
Krickx
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:40 PM
To: John Aulbach; Jeremy Goth
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Window "Curb"
 
Alright- I know have a follow up question:
 
I ran my model with 3 different spacer types - steel, aluminum and
insulated. While I expected the differences to be small the result I got
was 0 difference at all- No difference in the loads in Report LS-C, and
no difference in the Average U-value reported in LV-D.
 
In some research I've done in the past using Therm and Window I've found
that going from a steel spacer to an insulated spacer can change the
U-value by as much as 0.30 to 0.38. I would say that's a significant
difference and would expect that any change of that magnitude would
impact loads in eQUEST. Unfortunately I saw 0 change.
 
Any suggestions?
 
Thanks for all the responses so far - this topic is really interesting!
 
Kind regards,
Alex Krickx
 
 
Alex Krickx, LEED AP
Building Energy Specialist
 
1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
(t) 408.541.8124
 
Warning: The information contained in this e-mail may be privileged
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notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message
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From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Alex
Krickx
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:09 AM
To: John Aulbach; Jeremy Goth
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Window "Curb"
 
Wow....
 
John - your question led me to the right answer (almost). Under Window
Properties/Basic Specs I can edit the Spacer-Type. This edits the
Edge-of-Glass conductance. Does anyone know what the corresponding
values are for the different Spacer-Types? And is there any way to have
a user-entered value?
 

SPACER-TYPE

Takes a code-word that specifies the type of pane-to-pane spacer air in
multi-pane windows. The type of SPACER affects the edge-of-glass
conductance.
ALUMINUM                  Aluminum spacer
BUTYL/METAL               Butyl/Metal spacer
INSULATED                 Insulated spacer
STEEL                         Steel spacer
UE-EQ-UC                    Fictitious spacer that gives an
edge-of-glass conductance equal to the center-of-glass conductance
(i.e., conductance of glass is uniform over its area).
 
John - I think that in the wizard mode you can choose different frame
materials. I'm not sure but I'm guessing that the frame selection will
vary what the frame spacer type is. Thanks for the question!
 
Kind regards,
Alex Krickx
 
 
Alex Krickx, LEED AP
Building Energy Specialist

1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
(t) 408.541.8124
 
Warning: The information contained in this e-mail may be privileged
attorney-client communications or attorney work product and/or
proprietary and confidential.  If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient then you have received it in error and any review,
distribution or copying of this message is prohibited and you are to
notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message
immediately.
 
 
 
 
From: John Aulbach [mailto:jra_sac at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:59 AM
To: Alex Krickx; Jeremy Goth
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Window "Curb"
 
Hi Alex:
 
Dumb Question.
 
Doesn't the eQuest Windows library allow you to chose glazing with a
certain type of fram (wodd, aluminum, thermal bridge, no thermal
bridge)?
 
John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM
Senior Energy Engineer
________________________________

Partner Energy
1990 E. Grand Avenue, El Segundo, CA 90245
W: 888-826-1216, X254| D: 310-765-7295 | F: 310-817-2745
www.ptrenergy.com <http://www.ptrenergy.com/>  | jaulbach at ptrenergy.com
<mailto:%7C%20jaulbach at ptrenergy.com> 
 
 
 
 
________________________________

From: Alex Krickx <akrickx at seriousmaterials.com>
To: Jeremy Goth <jngoth at hotmail.com>
Cc: "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
<equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 8:43:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Window "Curb"
Thanks Bruce and Jeremy,
 
Well, you've answered my question but I still have the same problem: how
to account for edge-of-glass effects in eQUEST (the edge of glass
U-value will be between the frame and COG values). Back to the drawing
board I guess. Thanks for the responses.
 
Kind regards,
Alex Krickx
 
From: Jeremy Goth [mailto:jngoth at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:26 AM
To: Alex Krickx
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Window "Curb"
 
Go to your building shell and navigate to the space/roof/skylight in the
component tree.  Select the skylight then go to the spreadsheet tab on
the right and find 'Skylight Surface - Curb - Performance'.
 
Jeremy
 
________________________________

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 20:00:19 -0500
From: bruce5 at bellnet.ca
To: akrickx at seriousmaterials.com
CC: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Window "Curb"

    A curb is used to lift the window up off the roof and allow the
window to be flashed and made water tight.  It can be as simple as a 2x6
or 2x8 wood box.  A complicated one would be a fully insulated wall
tunnel through a roof truss system.  It should be modelled as an
exterior wall.  There should be no edge of glass effect as all the glass
should be inside the opening.  There will be an edge/corner effect where
the window frame sits on the curb.
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.
Abode Engineering


On 04/01/2011 04:12 PM, Alex Krickx wrote: 
Hi everyone,
 
Happy New Year! Well, to start off the new year, I have a question on
what the "curb" is in the LV-H report. The placement of the information,
and the fact that it has an area and U-value (much the way the window
frame does) leads me to believe it may be to account for Edge-of-Glass
effects (if you look at Window5 outputs it has COG U-values, frame
U-values and edge-of-glass U-values).
 
I can't see anywhere in the detailed edit mode to input curb information
- I looked in both the "Glass Type Properties" and "Window Properties"
Screens.
 
I found the following info in the DOE2 help file, but it looks like it
only applies to skylights? It also wasn't clear if it was in fact for
edge of glass, and how to add this information (I'm guessing in the INP
file?). Thanks for any help.
 
CURB -CONDUCT
Conductance of the skylight curb, excluding the outside air film but
including the inside air film. 
Notes:
1.     You can define curbs only for exterior windows and skylights, not
for interior windows.
2.     If the CURB-HEIGHT is zero no curb calculations will be
performed.
3.     The curb area is not subtracted from the associated exterior wall
area.
4.     Each hour, the program adds the effect of a wind speed-dependent
outside air film to the user specified CURB-CONDUCT.
5.     The various elements of a curb (top, bottom, side, dividers,
etc.) may have different conductances. In this case, CURB-CONDUCT should
be an area-weighted average of the different elements.
6.     The program finds the overall window conduction by adding curb,
frame, edge-of-glass, and center-of-glass contributions. Thus, all three
of these contributions are included in each of the following report
quantities:
          "Window Conduction" in summary reports LS-B, LS-C, LS-E, and
LS-F;
          "Window U-Value" and "Window Area" in verification report LV-D
and LV-H;
          WINDOW hourly report variable #1, "Window U-Value".
7.     A WINDOW multiplier also multiplies the curb area.
8.     Window fins and overhangs shade the curb as well as the glazing.
9.     Shading devices, like blinds and drapes, that you specify using
the WINDOW keywords SHADING-SCHEDULE and CONDUCT-SCHEDULE, affect only
the glazed part of the window. They do not affect the heat conduction
through the curb.
10.   If the window has a setback, the curb is also set back by the same
amount.
 
Kind regards,
Alex Krickx
 
Alex Krickx, LEED AP
Building Energy Specialist
Error! Filename not specified.
1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
(t) 408.541.8124
 
Warning: The information contained in this e-mail may be privileged
attorney-client communications or attorney work product and/or
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intended recipient then you have received it in error and any review,
distribution or copying of this message is prohibited and you are to
notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message
immediately.
 
 
  
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