[Equest-users] Cooking Equipment and Elevators/ Exhaust fans

[Paul Diglio]

I would not be concerned that there is a disadvantage to sub-meters because 
using separate meters removes the internal loads from the HVAC system.

In the Northeast, the elevator equipment rooms are generally exhausted with 
maybe a unit heater for use during very cold weather.  Kitchens use makeup air 
and hood exhaust so the cooking equipment load does not trespass into the 
building.  Besides kitchens are seldom air-conditioned and the heating load is 
minimal.

Paul Diglio





________________________________
From: Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
To: "Bosch, Crina" <CBosch at karpinskieng.com>; Ravi Srinivasan 
<ravi.s.srinivasan at gmail.com>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 4:37:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Cooking Equipment and Elevators/ Exhaust fans

 
The comment from the reviewer looks like a copy-paste job from one of my recent 
models (maybe we got the same guy/gal?).
 
Applying the equipment loads to the spaces as you’ve initially done is the 
intuitive thing to do, but for LEED you will run into issues coming up with 
annual consumption totals and maximum demand figures analogous to other energy 
enduses normally reported in the graphical outputs.
 
As others are suggesting, I have specified non-receptacle process loads as 
direct loads to one or more submeters.  In doing so you can get the analogous 
monthly consumption/demand quantities reported explicitly through report PS-B, 
separate from your default gas/electric meters.
 
The disadvantage here (to the potential detriment in your modeled performance) 
is that this method of reporting separately also removes the associated internal 
loads from your buildings, which means you gain less credit for any 
better-than-standard HVAC equipment handling those loads.  In the case of 
elevators, it may be negligible, but in the case of significant kitchen 
equipment loads, you might want to run it defined each ways [submetered for PS-B 
documentation but in the spaces for everything else] and explain the reason for 
the separate simulation in the provided PS-B reports is because the loads must 
be “isolated” from the building to meet such reporting demands, but that this in 
turn skews the loads incident on the systems for the actual model performance 
runs… 

 
…but don’t jump through any extra hoops if removing those internal loads doesn’t 
make a big difference ;)!  

 
In fact, Otto’s suggestion to politely advise the reviewer of the issue and 
simply provide screenshots of the corresponding schedules/inputs is interesting 
and something I might try myself, next time this particular comment comes up – 
that may be the path of least resistance.
 
~Nick
 
 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
Smith & Boucher Engineers
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
www.smithboucher.com
 
From:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Bosch, Crina
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:37 PM
To: Ravi Srinivasan
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Cooking Equipment and Elevators/ Exhaust fans
 
Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts. I will try the option with 2 
meters and hopefully this will resolve my problem. 

 
Sincerely, 
Crina Bosch
 

________________________________
 
From:Ravi Srinivasan [mailto:ravi.s.srinivasan at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:35 PM
To: Demba Ndiaye; Bosch, Crina
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Cooking Equipment and Elevators/ Exhaust fans
 
Well said, Demba.

Crina, create two new meters (of "building" type) - one for Kitchen and another 
for Elevator. Input kW and associated schedules as direct loads.
Open the "utility" electricity meter (typically "EM1"). And, bring these two 
newly created meters within EM1. 


PS-B report should show energy use of Kitchen and Elevator separately. Ensure 
you have these two meters and associated loads input in baseline and proposed. 


Best Regards.



-- 
Ravi Srinivasan, PhD
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Demba Ndiaye <Demba.Ndiaye at setty.com> wrote:
Crina,
 
For the elevators, you can create a separate meter…
 
_______________
Demba NDIAYE
 
From:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Otto 
Schwieterman
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:05 PM
To: Bosch, Crina; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Cooking Equipment and Elevators/ Exhaust fans
 
My only suggestion would be to perform a save-as and change the misc equipment 
energy consumption to zero for the elevator (and then do it again for the 
kitchen) to find the equipment usage and demand.
 
If your independent fans are exhaust fans, I would do the same thing that I 
mentioned above. 

 
The reports in eQUEST will not break out the equipment but you can write a 
narrative explaining that eQUEST cannot separate these loads and explain your 
procedure. I believe that the reviewer simply wants to make sure that the energy 
consumption is the same for these items in the baseline and proposed model.
 
From:Bosch, Crina [mailto:CBosch at karpinskieng.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:04 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] Cooking Equipment and Elevators/ Exhaust fans
 
Dear users, 
 
I received form USGBC the following comment: 
 
“The project contains elevators and kitchen equipment in the actual design; 
however, the process energy related to the elevator and kitchen equipment was 
not included in each energy model, since Section 1.8 of the template does not 
include the process energy consumption for elevator or kitchen equipment. Revise 
the Proposed and Baseline models to include the process energy for elevator and 
kitchen equipment in the appropriate space in the models. In addition, update 
the template reflecting the changes.”
 
The kitchen equipment and elevators were input in the model under the equipment 
tab for each space as designed but I couldn’t separate them in eQuest from the 
Misc. Equip under the Consumption by Enduse Report or Demand Report. I verified 
everything I could and see how I can spit them and the only thing I found was 
this: “INTERIOR-EU - Accepts a list of up to 10 code-words specifying the 
end-use category of the INTERIOR-POWER. The code-words correspond to the end-use 
categories in the end-use reports (PS-E, PS-F, BEPS, BEPU). Acceptable entries 
are LIGHTS, TASK-LIGHTS, MISC-EQUIP, SPACE-HEATING, SPACE-COOLING, HEAT-REJECT, 
PUMPS&AUX, VENT-FANS, REFRIG-DISPLAY, HT-PUMP-SUPPLEM, DOMEST-HOT-WTR, and 
EXT-USAGE. “
In the end I understand that eQuest does not have the option of doing what the 
reviewer is asking for. 

 
The reviewer also wants the independent fans to be separated from the supply and 
return fans which I didn’t find how. 


Am I missing something here? 
 
Your help is appreciated. 
Thank you.
Crina Bosch
 
 
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