[Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating source
Li, Lan
lli at sbmce.com
Fri Jul 1 08:01:33 PDT 2011
Yes, for sure it would give me more points as I tried on other projects
before. We are buying the book right now.
Thanks!
Lan
Lan Li, PE, LEED AP BD+C
Mechanical Engineer
Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC
1540 Corporate Woods Parkway
Uniontown, OH 44685
Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123
Fax: (330) 896-9180
Cell:(330) 904-6292
lli at sbmce.com <mailto:lli at sbmce.com>
www.sbmce.com <http://www.sbmce.com/>
Columbus Office (614) 448-1498
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________________________________
From: Paul Diglio [mailto:paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:45 AM
To: Li, Lan
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating
source
Lan:
No, I could not find a section that mentions the predominate heating
source of the proposed be used as baseline heating source.
The Advanced Energy Modeling manual costs $120.00 and is available only
for download. It is a secure document and cannot be printed as a PDF,
it can be printed to hard-copy.
Based on G3.1.3.2 and the Advance Energy Modeling manual extract below,
my understanding is that the baseline system can only use one source of
fuel for the HVAC systems and the baseline boiler plant for system 5
shall use the same type of fuel as the proposed. Does ASHRAE consider
electricity as a fuel? In the 90.1-2004 definitions fuel is defined as
'a material that may be used to produce heat or generate power by
combustion'.
Another example of the lack of coordination between LEED and ASHRAE
90.1.
If I understand your design correctly, your DOAS is using a natural gas
furnace and you have a VRV system for the space heating and cooling
requirements. So your actual proposed heating source is electricity
with a small secondary natural gas use to precondition the outside air.
Since LEED says you cannot have two energy sources for the HVAC systems
in the baseline, your reviewer is requesting that you use the proposed
predominate source for the baseline.
Would it not increase your energy savings to do as the reviewer
requests?
Paul Diglio
________________________________
From: "Li, Lan" <lli at sbmce.com>
To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 10:11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating
source
Paul,
Does this manual say that I would use the predominant heating source of
proposed as the source for my base? We don't have this book in our
company library.
Thanks a lot!
Lan
Lan Li, PE, LEED AP BD+C
Mechanical Engineer
Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC
1540 Corporate Woods Parkway
Uniontown, OH 44685
Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123
Fax: (330) 896-9180
Cell:(330) 904-6292
lli at sbmce.com <mailto:lli at sbmce.com>
www.sbmce.com <http://www.sbmce.com/>
Columbus Office (614) 448-1498
* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be
legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an
authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited
from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or
its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of
this message and any attachments.
Thank you
________________________________
From: Paul Diglio [mailto:paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:07 AM
To: Li, Lan; cmg750 at gmail.com; Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating
source
Lan:
In the Advanced Energy Modeling for LEED Technical Manual v.1 page 28
under ASHRAE 90.1-2004 common errors for HVAC System, primary system
type, the second error is 'Baseline HVAC systems use both fossil fuel
and electricity'.
I assume this is why your reviewer requested that the baseline be
changed to the predominate heating energy source that was used in the
proposed model.
Paul Diglio
________________________________
From: "Li, Lan" <lli at sbmce.com>
To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>; cmg750 at gmail.com;
Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 9:45:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating
source
Paul, Paul and Carol,
This sentence just jumps into my eyes. It is on ASHREA 90.1-2007 User's
manual page G-22.
Here is the interception.
The performance rating rules for the baseline building HVAC system are
shown in Table G-A. This table shows the baseline building system types,
based on building type (nonresidential or
residential), the number of floors, the floor area and the heating
source (electric or other). Note that a hybrid system refers to a system
with any combination of fossil and electric heat, and the baseline
system for this is a fossil fuel system.
I think I will stick with my gun and go for it. I will keep all of you
posted for the outcome of my review. Hopefully everyone will be clear on
this matter then.
Thanks!
Lan
Lan Li, PE, LEED AP BD+C
Mechanical Engineer
Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC
1540 Corporate Woods Parkway
Uniontown, OH 44685
Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123
Fax: (330) 896-9180
Cell:(330) 904-6292
lli at sbmce.com <mailto:lli at sbmce.com>
www.sbmce.com <http://www.sbmce.com/>
Columbus Office (614) 448-1498
* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be
legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an
authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited
from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or
its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of
this message and any attachments.
Thank you
________________________________
From: Paul Diglio [mailto:paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 5:48 PM
To: Li, Lan; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating
source
Lan:
90.1-2007 requires a system 5 with a fossil fuel hot water boiler as you
have modeled, but in 90.1-2007 Table G3.1 Number 10 HVAC Systems Base
Building Performance column it states that you need to meet any
system-specific requirements in Section G3.1.3.
In G3.1.3.2, it states that for system 5, the boiler plant shall use the
same fuel as the proposed design, which in your case is electric
resistance and compressor heat pump energy. I would model electric hot
water boilers.
Paul Diglio
________________________________
From: "Li, Lan" <lli at sbmce.com>
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 4:24:27 PM
Subject: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating source
Dear eQuesters,
I just got LEED review comments for my project. Our proposed design is
VRF system with roof top unit providing ventilation air. Roof top unit
is using gas as heating source. There are misc. elec. heaters in the
building for places like entries. I interpreted my building heating
source as "electric hybrid" and used hot water fossil fuel boiler as my
base design. The comments I got read as the follows:
Section 1.1.A of the form indicates that the primary heating source is
fossil fuel. However, the electric heating energy use reported in Table
EAp2-5 for the Proposed Case exceeds the fossil fuel heating energy use.
Please verify that the correct heating source has been selected. If
electric heating is the primary heating source, please change the
Baseline system type accordingly. Provide updated simulation results and
a revised Prerequisite Form as necessary.
I couldn't find an official definition either on LEED reference book or
90.1. What is your take on this?
Your input is highly appreciated! Thank you very much!
Lan
Lan Li, PE, LEED AP BD+C
Mechanical Engineer
Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC
1540 Corporate Woods Parkway
Uniontown, OH 44685
Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123
Fax: (330) 896-9180
Cell:(330) 904-6292
lli at sbmce.com <mailto:lli at sbmce.com>
www.sbmce.com <http://www.sbmce.com/>
Columbus Office (614) 448-1498
* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be
legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an
authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited
from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or
its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of
this message and any attachments.
Thank you
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