[Equest-users] natural ventilation scenario and LEED

[Joe Huang]

That's why I'm confused about the conundrum, because it seems the question arises because 
the building is unconditioned, not that it has a lot of fixed openings. As far as modeling 
natural ventilation through fixed openings, that's just infiltration with another name, 
which can be modeled by setting the EFFECTIVE-LEAKAGE-FRACTION  to the (total area of 
openings)/(total floor area).  Just as an amusing sidenote, a long time ago I asked Max 
Sherman (co-author of the Sherman-Grimsrud Model) whether he had any reservations about 
using the SGM to model natural ventilation instead of infiltration.  To my surprise, Max 
said that it actually should work better for large openings than for cracks and leaks.

Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"


On 11/22/2013 12:28 PM, Maria Karpman wrote:
>
> I would contact USGBC or search CIRs to establish rules that apply to the project. From 
> 90.1 perspective, Appendix G shouldn’t be used: “…*G1.1 Performance Rating Method Scope. 
> *….this appendix is provided for those wishing to use the methodology developed for this 
> standard to quantify performance that substantially exceeds the requirements of Standard 
> 90.1. It may be useful for evaluating the performance of all /proposed designs/, 
> including /alterations /and /additions /to /existing buildings/, except designs with no 
> mechanical systems.“ That said, I would be surprised if this disqualifies the project 
> from getting LEED certification. If there are no conditioned spaces and all you have is 
> lighting and some process loads, you should be able to calculate savings in a simple 
> spreadsheet since there are no interacting systems. If USGBC asks you to model it (I 
> really can’t think of a reason why though…), you’d model it as unconditioned in both the 
> baseline and proposed designs, so it wouldn’t matter whether the windows are operable or 
> not. Please keep us posted about how this is resolved. I am curious what LEED policies 
> are for such projects.
>
> Maria
>
> *From:*equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Christian Stalberg
> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2013 3:00 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] natural ventilation scenario and LEED
>
> Joe,
>
> Okay let me elaborate further.
>
> This high bay warehouse building has no HVAC whatsoever. Not even ventilation fans. Only 
> fixed openings distributed across the walls and at the roof. I do not know if LEED 
> specifies modeling only operable windows, but that is the example they give in their 
> guidebook. Again, I do not know if this building would even qualify as enclosed space 
> and therefore be eligible for modeling. I have looked everywhere including the LEEDuser 
> forum and am unable to shed light on this issue.
>
> Regards,
>
> _
>
> Christian Stalberg
>
> Natural Intelligence, LLC
>
> http://naturalintelligence.us
>
> Tel. 415.531.4610
>
> *From:*equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> 
> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Joe Huang
> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2013 10:58 AM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] natural ventilation scenario and LEED
>
> Christian,
>
> I'm still unclear what is the conundrum.  Is it that LEED modeling rules only specify 
> operable natural ventilation, or that you're unclear how to model fixed, i.e., 
> uncontrolled,  natural ventilation?
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
> Moraga CA 94556
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com  <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>   
> http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com  for simulation-ready weather data
> (o) (925)388-0265
> (c) (510)928-2683
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
>
> On 11/21/2013 4:58 PM, Christian Stalberg wrote:
>
> I’m getting no responses on the bldg-sim list so am trying here too.
>
> I have a factory/warehouse that is using natural ventilation for cooling. What is 
> unusual is that the openings are fixed openings.
>
> At first glance it seems that it would not even qualify as an enclosed space and 
> therefore would not be eligible for energy modeling for LEED. The project is registered 
> at USGBC however, of course I realize that may mean nothing.
>
> If this project could be eligible for LEED certification, I am trying to come up with an 
> approach and all I can think of is pretending the openings are operable and then 
> following the guidelines as outlined in the Advanced Energy Modeling for LEED handbook.
>
> I would appreciate any guidance anyone can offer on this seeming conundrum!
>
> _
>
> Christian Stalberg
>
> Natural Intelligence, LLC
>
> http://naturalintelligence.us
>
> Tel. 415.531.4610
>
>      
>      
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