[Equest-users] Fwd: heat recovery and zone exhaust

Busman, Michael R MBusman at chevron.com
Fri Sep 13 09:13:19 PDT 2013


Vipul,

Regarding your original question of how to model the systems, perhaps, you could consider the corridor loads as part of the apartments. Fixed lighting for the corridors could be assigned along with apartment lighting with an hourly schedule.  O.A. and motor power assigned to the apartment systems??  I’d need to give it some thought.

If the design isn’t cast in concrete yet, how’s this for a potentially less expensive design to accomplish a similar result?  This assumes the corridor supply units and exhaust fans are in fairly close proximity to each other, which they might be if you’re looking at a heat wheel.  In a different life long ago I spent 17 years with Hilton Hotels.  At two older properties in TX we had similar corridor supply units where the conditioned OA went under the guestroom doors as toilet exhaust make up.  The rooms had fan coil units.  If you looked at all the rooms, most of the time the toilet exhaust was good, clean air.  We petitioned and got approval  (there were precedents set by other companies also) from the building departments to duct the exhaust back to the supply units and created a return air system.  We added smoke detectors and dampers to satisfy the fire/life safety folks.  We also used activated carbon or Purafil® filters to clean up the returned air.  We were also prepared to add ultraviolet lamps if necessary to satisfy any health concerns, but they weren’t necessary with the filtration we used.  We were able to go from 100% OA to about 15%-20% OA, which in addition to the energy savings can make a difference in required plant capacity if you also need to address the central plant.  The Marriott Marquis in Atlanta, which opened about 1980 was originally designed with a similar system, so there have been precedents.  Since times have changed, an analysis of the capital & maintenance costs of the systems (heat wheel vs. filtration) would probably be appropriate.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Mike Busman

Michael R. Busman, CEM
Lead Project Engineer II

Chevron Energy Solutions
A Division of Chevron U.S.A., Inc.
145 S. State College Blvd.
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mbusman at chevron.com<mailto:mbusman at chevron.com>



From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Vipul Babriya
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20 AM
To: bruce5 at bellnet.ca
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com
Subject: [Equest-users] Fwd: heat recovery and zone exhaust

Thanks Bruce,

The project is located in NYC, and the DOB has already been approved the design. The intent is to recover the conditioned air from apartment and use it to preheat the 100% OA that will be supplied to Corridors using heat recovery wheel.

Thanks,
Vipul



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Easterbrook <bruce5 at bellnet.ca<mailto:bruce5 at bellnet.ca>>
To: Vipul Babriya <vipulbabriya at aol.com<mailto:vipulbabriya at aol.com>>
Cc: wbishop <wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com<mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>>; JHANSEN <JHANSEN at ghtltd.com<mailto:JHANSEN at ghtltd.com>>; equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Sent: Thu, Sep 12, 2013 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] heat recovery and zone exhaust
I don't think building codes will allow you to do that, not easily anyway.  An Ontario/Canada perspective though.  Each of the apartments will be it's own fire compartment.  Everything breaking this barrier will need fire dampers.  All fire dampers need man access.  May be much more trouble than it is worth.
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.
Abode Engineering
On 12/09/2013 04:35 PM, Vipul Babriya wrote:
Hello Bill/James,

I have a typical situation for DOAS system that serves fresh air (100% OA) to corridor spaces in multifamily building. The DOAS unit is equiped with heat recovery wheel, and uses the exhaust air from apartments, i.e. exhaust from bathroom and kitchen rather than return air from corridor itself. How would i model the system that uses recovered heat from one system to another in the eQUEST.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
Vipul



-----Original Message-----
From: Bishop, Bill <wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com><mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>
To: James Hansen <JHANSEN at ghtltd.com><mailto:JHANSEN at ghtltd.com>; equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org><mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 10:04 am
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] heat recovery and zone exhaust
James,

Make sure to NOT enter zonal exhaust flows if your intention is for the air to return to the ERV. Specifying zonal exhaust simulates air leaving the zone through a separate exhaust fan (think bathrooms, kitchens, clothes dryers) and not returning to the air handling unit.

Regards,
Bill

William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED® AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP
Mechanical Engineer

134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114            F: (585) 325-6005
wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com<mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>           www.pathfinder-ea.com<http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/>
P   Sustainability – the forest AND the trees. P
________________________________
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org?>] On Behalf Of James Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:59 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] heat recovery and zone exhaust

I’m having the typical issues with getting an enthalpy wheel to show appreciable savings.  I’ve adjusted some of the control sequences, and have managed to show a savings in cooling energy, but I’m getting no heating savings, which is strange, unless my building is actually asking for cold OA during the winter because of the rather large internal heat loads (my guess is that this is true).

My question is whether you HAVE to define zonal exhaust airflow rates to properly show the savings from heat recovery, or if the program knows that the exhaust will roughly match the OA delivered to the space?  Do I have to turn on exhaust tracking?

GHT Limited
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP
Senior Associate
1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200
Arlington, VA  22201-4749
703-338-5754 (Cell)
703-243-1200 (Office)
703-276-1376 (Fax)
www.ghtltd.com<http://www.ghtltd.com/>



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