[Equest-users] Indoor fan separation at ARI

[Elizabeth Gillmor]

Sorry for any confusion, I was just copying/pasting my LEED response for a
system Type 5. Yes, you would follow G3.1.2.9 with the appropriate numbers
for system types 3-4.

LEED refers you to the EMIT user guide for these formulas, you can
reference that:
http://www.rmi.org/Content/Files/EMITUsersGuide.pdf


*Elizabeth Gillmor  PE, LC, LEED AP*

*e n e r g e t i c s  **consulting engineers, llc*
energetics-eng.com
c 303.619.0091

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Omar ElRawy <omaroelrawy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>              Thanks William Bishop, Elizabeth Gillmor, Yongqingzhao, and Maria
> Karpman, this is a lot of helpful data.
>
>
> I think *Maria* did brief the whole subject, but I just need to ask few
> questions that will help in well documenting this point to the LEED
> reviewer:
>
> *1. Where can I find these official formulas so that I can refer to and
> attach to my reply please? *
> *2. What is the difference between SEER and SEER2, and HSPF and HSPF2?*
>
>
> *Concerning fan power*, I'am referring to ASHRAE 90.1 2007 section 3.1.2.9*
> to find the following:*
>
> bhp = CFMs x 0.00094 + A       ----- (where I'am considering
> my auto-sized eQuest CFM for this value)
>
> Pfan (Watts) = bhp × 746 / Fan Motor Efficiency    (For systems 3 through
> 8)
>
> So I'am stopping at both equations to find myself confused with
> *Elizabeth*'s equations (KW/cfm = bhp/0.746*Fan Motor Efficiency, and
>  bhp=CFM x 0.0013+A)
>
> For example, my system is 248 CFM, as per section 3.1.2.9, my
> calculations will be as follows:
>
>
>    - bhp=248x0.00094+0 = 0.23312
>    - Pfan = (0.23312x746)/0.825 = 210.79 W
>    - W/CFM = 210.79/248 = 0.8499 W/CFM
>
>
> *I wonder if Elizabeth is using a different 90.1 version, or I'am just
> confused at the 3.1.2.9 interpretation?*
>
>
>
> Thanks for consideration,
>
> *Omar ElRawy, LEED AP BD+C*
> LEED Project Manager
> EA Sustainable Building Consultants
> http://www.ea-buildingconsultants.com
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Maria Karpman <
> maria.karpman at karpmanconsulting.net> wrote:
>
>> Note that 90.1 2013 finally supplied the “official” formulas for
>> extracting fan power from EER, SEER, COP47, and HSPF ratings. The resulting
>> EIR is slighting different compared to the eQUEST formulas discussed below
>> that many of us have been using – for example, the ASHRAE equations account
>> for system capacity, resulting in varying EIR depending on system size.
>>
>>
>>
>> For Baseline HVAC Systems 1,
>>
>> 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, calculate the minimum COP*nfcooling *and
>>
>> COP*nfheating *using the equation for the applicable performance
>>
>> rating as indicated in Tables 6.8.1-1 through 6.8.1-4.
>>
>> Where a full- and part-load efficiency rating is provided in
>>
>> Tables 6.8.1-1 through 6.8.1-4, the full-load equation below
>>
>> shall be used:
>>
>>
>>
>> COP*nfcooling *= 7.84E-8 × EER × *Q *+ 0.338 × EER
>>
>> COP*nfcooling *= –0.0076 × SEER2 + 0.3796 × SEER
>>
>> COP*nfheating *= 1.48E-7 × COP*47 *× *Q *+ 1.062 × COP*47*
>>
>> (applies to heat-pump heating efficiency only)
>>
>> COP*nfheating *= –0.0296 × HSPF2 + 0.7134 × HSPF
>>
>>
>>
>> where COP*nfcooling *and COP*nfheating *are the packaged HVAC
>>
>> equipment cooling and heating energy efficiency, respectively,
>>
>> to be used in the baseline building, which excludes
>>
>> supply fan power, and *Q *is the AHRI-rated cooling capacity
>>
>> in Btu/h.
>>
>> EER, SEER, COP, and HSPF shall be at AHRI test conditions.
>>
>> Fan energy shall be modeled separately according to
>>
>> Section G3.1.2.10.
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Maria Karpman *LEED AP, BEMP, CEM
>>
>> ________________
>>
>> Karpman Consulting
>>
>> www.karpmanconsulting.net
>>
>> Phone 860.430.1909
>>
>> 41C New London Turnpike
>>
>> Glastonbury, CT 06033
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Elizabeth Gillmor
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 09, 2015 11:32 AM
>> *To:* Jones, Christopher
>>
>> *Cc:* equest
>> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Indoor fan separation at ARI
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris you are right, the unit labels should have been W/cfm not kW.
>> Thanks for the catch!
>>
>> [image: Inline image 2]
>>
>>
>> *Elizabeth Gillmor  **PE, LC, LEED AP*
>>
>>
>>
>> *e n e r g e t i c s  **consulting engineers, llc*
>>
>> energetics-eng.com
>>
>> c 303.619.0091
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 8:49 AM, Jones, Christopher <
>> Christopher.r.Jones at wspgroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> Just checking but 0.365 kW/cfm seems pretty high.  That is 356 W/cfm.
>> The DOE2.2 default is 0.0006 kW/cfm, 0.6 W/cfm for the PSZ system
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: cid:image003.png at 01D09C46.E75BA0D0]
>>
>> *Christopher Jones,* P.Eng.
>> Senior Engineer
>>
>>
>>
>> *WSP Canada Inc.*
>>
>> 2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
>>
>> Toronto, ON M4P 1E4
>> T +1 416-644-4226
>>
>> F +1 416-487-9766
>>
>> C +1 416-697-0065
>>
>>
>>
>> www.wspgroup.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Elizabeth Gillmor
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 09, 2015 10:09 AM
>> *To:* Omar ElRawy
>> *Cc:* equest
>> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Indoor fan separation at ARI
>>
>>
>>
>> I seem to get this comment frequently so I have it all typed out as a
>> stock LEED comment response.  The advice you received is correct. You can
>> use the following formulas for fan power and EIR:
>>
>>
>>
>> kW/cfm = BHP / 0.746 * Fan Motor Efficiency     (<----from Appendix G)
>>
>>
>>
>> BHP = CFM * 0.0013 + Pressure Drop Adjustment
>>
>>
>>
>> The baseline EIR is then calculated with fan energy modeled separately,
>> using the following formula (same as what eQuest uses in Wizard mode):
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>>
>>
>> Where ARI Fan Power = fan power at rated ARI conditions (W/Btuh), and CAP
>> = total cooling capacity (Btuh).  At rated ARI conditions, the supply fan
>> is rated at 0.365 kW/cfm and 400 cfm/ton, such that:
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Inline image 2]
>>
>>
>>
>> When normalizing the cooling capacity, the formula is:
>>
>> [image: Inline image 3]
>>
>>
>>
>> When applied to a baseline EER=9.5, the resulting EIR=0.3051.  The eQuest
>> wizard will also do this for you correctly, but usually at LEED submittal
>> time we are all well past the wizard phase, so the formulas above are handy
>> to have.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>> Elizabeth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Elizabeth Gillmor  **PE, LC, LEED AP*
>>
>>
>>
>> *e n e r g e t i c s  **consulting engineers, llc*
>>
>> energetics-eng.com
>>
>> c 303.619.0091
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Omar ElRawy <omaroelrawy at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> *Dear all,*
>>
>> *               I've got the following reply for a psz system in the
>> baseline case during preliminary LEED design submittal:*
>>
>>
>>
>> *"**N*ote that section G3.1.2.1 requires that where efficiency ratings,
>> such as EER and COP, include fan energy, the descriptor shall be broken
>> down into its components so that supply fan energy can be modeled
>> separately. Because the efficiency ratings are calculated at ARI-rated
>> conditions, the fans should also be broken out at ARI-rated conditions.
>> Most simulation software programs have the capability to perform this step
>> automatically. Provide documentation showing that this calculation has been
>> performed by the software automatically or provide calculations consistent
>> with the ASHRAE 90.1-2007 User’s Manual showing that the calculation has
>> been performed at ARI-rated conditions."
>>
>>
>>
>> What I did is that I referred to eQuest library, and documented the
>> following paragraph to the reviewer:
>>
>> "COOLING-EIR:
>> The Electric Input Ratio (EIR), or 1/(Coefficient of Performance), for
>> the cooling unit at ARI rated conditions..... This EIR is at ARI rated
>> conditions, i.e., without correction for different temperature or part
>> load. Note: If you include fan electric energy consumption in your value of
>> COOLING-EIR, then you should set SUPPLY-KW/FLOW to zero. Otherwise, the
>> supply fan electrical energy will be double counted........ Imbedding the
>> fan energy into the COOLING-EIR is valid only if the fan is constant volume
>> and INDOOR-FAN-MODE = INTERMITTENT; i.e. the fan cycles on/off with the
>> compressor. If the fan runs continuously during occupied hours, or the fan
>> is variable volume, then the fan energy cannot be included in the
>> COOLING-EIR (or HEATING-EIR)."
>>
>> And I did set fan kw/cfm to zero, intermittent, and constant volume, but
>> I've got the SV-A report reporting zero kw power demand, and zero fan (kw)
>> for the system and its zones.
>>
>> *Then I got an advice stating that:*
>>
>> "You should do what the reviewer mentions, divide the indoor fan from the
>> efficiency rating at ARI-rated conditions and model it separately; this way
>> you will be able to report the appropriate fan power"
>>
>> My question is:* where do I separately input the indoor fan power (kw),
>> and what value should it be?, knowing that this is a baseline case that do
>> not refer to an actual design.*
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *Omar ElRawy, LEED AP BD+C*
>>
>> LEED Project Manager
>>
>> EA Sustainable Building Consultants
>>
>> http://www.ea-buildingconsultants.com
>>
>>
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