[TRNSYS-users] Persistent questioning about window definition

Antoine Gautier antoine.gautier at solamen.fr
Wed Jun 12 03:52:29 PDT 2013

```Hi Pauline

Hereunder the formula if it can help

<https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/pipermail/trnsys-users/2011/008955.html> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/pipermail/trnsys-users/2011/008955.html

Best

--

Antoine Gautier
Solamen SAS
+33 6 58 24 02 60

antoine.gautier at solamen.fr

De : Pauline GELIN [mailto:p.gelin at katene.fr]
Envoyé : mercredi 12 juin 2013 12:31
À : trnsys-users
Objet : Re: [TRNSYS-users] Persistent questioning about window definition

Hello,

In order to understand TRNSYS calculations for windows, is that someone who can give me the mathematical formula linking Uedge, calculated page 169 of the TRNBUILD manual,  and the  final Uglass, really used for the transmission losses.

Thank you in advance for this help.

Best regards,

Pauline GELIN

Ingénieur Conception environnementale

cid:image004.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

cid:image006.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

10 avenue des canuts

69120 VAULX EN VELIN

T : 04.37.45.33.33

Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47

www.katene.coop

<http://www.woopa.coop> www.woopa.coop

De : Pauline GELIN
Envoyé : mardi 11 juin 2013 09:11
À : 'trnsys-users'
Objet : RE: Persistent questioning about window definition

Hello,

Sorry to send you again the same topic but my doubts persist, after many many tests, about the window values used by TRNSYS for transmission losses.

First of all, when I test a window with only glazing (area frame = 0), it seems that the 2 outputs of TRNBUILD Uwin and B4_QT (transmission into a wall, with a test with constant values of internal and external temperatures and no radiation) give me the same Uglass with convective heat transfer coefficients equal to convective + radiative coefficients, it means front coefficient = 27 kJ/hm²K = 0.13 m²K/W and back coefficient = 89 kJ/hm²K = 0.04 m²K/W.

Is it also what you found ? How could you explain me that ?

Then, also with this test of 100% glazing window, if I use a glass type I created with WINDOW 6 without frame and spacer (because I want to choose after the spacer and the frame in TRNBUILD), which is shown in WINID with a indicative Ug of 1.07 W/m²K, correct value for this type, when I look the 2 outputs Uwin and B4_QT, these ones give me a Uglass of only 0.57 W/m²K !

Could you explain to me what I did wrong? And more especially, how TRNSYS could calculate this value?

Thanks a again for all help you could give me to be sure of TNSYS values.

Best Regards,

Pauline GELIN

Ingénieur Conception environnementale

cid:image004.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

cid:image006.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

10 avenue des canuts

69120 VAULX EN VELIN

T : 04.37.45.33.33

Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47

www.katene.coop

<http://www.woopa.coop> www.woopa.coop

De : Pauline GELIN
Envoyé : lundi 27 mai 2013 14:43
À : 'trnsys-users'
Objet : Persistent questioning about window definition

Hello,

Sorry to insist but I am really blocked by these questions of data. I am not at all sure of the TRNSYS simulations.

Are there no one else who has met these misunderstandings?

Pauline GELIN

Ingénieur Conception environnementale

cid:image004.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

cid:image006.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

10 avenue des canuts

69120 VAULX EN VELIN

T : 04.37.45.33.33

Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47

www.katene.coop

<http://www.woopa.coop> www.woopa.coop

De : Pauline GELIN
Envoyé : jeudi 23 mai 2013 09:49
À : trnsys-users
Objet : Persistent questioning about window definition

Hi,

Then I used a glass that I had created from WINDOW6 software, it turned out that the Uwin value, given output by TRNBUILD and used in the simulations, did not correspond to what I expected, result due to the Ug value from database and percentage frame  and Uframe filled in TRNBUILD.

After many tests, it appears that the calculated Uwin TRNBUILD differs if I take a glazing created in WINDOW6, for which I have not information of spacer and, or a glazing initially given in the TRNBUILD database.

While Uframe percentage and spacer values indicated in my database windows are the same.

Does anyone know where does this difference come from?

What values ​​of Uframe, and percentage frame and spacer, does TRNBUILD consider : those entries in the database glazings or those filled in the database window that is created for each project?

This misunderstanding about the values ​​considered by TRNBUILD is not at all reassuring.

Especially when I tested a window created with WINDOW6 and one from  the initial TRNBUILD database with 100% glass (so without frame).

And in the first case I found a Uwin value equal to 0.3 instead of Ug equal to 1.07.

And in the second case I found a Uwin value of 1.22 for the same value of Ug equal to 1.07.

Best regards,

Pauline GELIN

Ingénieur Conception environnementale

cid:image004.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

cid:image006.jpg at 01CE062A.F4C2C000

10 avenue des canuts

69120 VAULX EN VELIN

T : 04.37.45.33.33

Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47

www.katene.coop

<http://www.woopa.coop> www.woopa.coop

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