[BLDG-SIM] LEED / ASHRAE 90.1 Modeling Question

[K Emerson]

A little off the direct question of this thread, but
just a comment on what might be a difference in
philosophy between minimum code compliance and LEED
certification.  Question: would we want to permit a
building owner to install single pane instead of
double pane windows because he claims to have put
demand ventilation controls in the building?  

While not an issue for someone seeing by how much they
can exceed the minimum, it is a question for the code
end of the work.  

Keith Emerson
United Power
303-637-1200

--- Jason Glazer <jglazer at gard.com> wrote:
> The Standard 90.1 committee has recognized the
> difference 
> between a pass/fail compliance and a savings
> calculation 
> and is in the process of developing informative
> Appendix G 
> "Performance Rating Method" just to cope with these
> very 
> issues. Appendix G is just about to finish up its
> second 
> public review and will be hopefully published within
> a 
> year.  One excerpt from the draft says:
> 
> "G3.11 Schedules. Schedules capable of modeling
> hourly 
> variations in occupancy, lighting power,
> miscellaneous 
> equipment power, thermostat set points, and HVAC
> system 
> operation shall be used. The schedules shall be
> typical of 
> the proposed building type as determined by the
> designer 
> and approved by the rating authority. Schedules
> shall be 
> identical for the proposed design and baseline
> building
> design.
> 
> "Exception to G3.11: Schedules may be allowed to
> differ 
> between proposed design and baseline building design
> with 
> approval of the rating authority when necessary to
> model 
> nonstandard efficiency measures. Measures that may
> warrant 
> use of different schedules include, but are not
> limited to, 
> lighting controls, natural ventilation, demand
> control 
> ventilation, and measures that reduce service water
> heating
> loads."
> 
> I know this does not help today but it will in the
> future.
> 
> Jason
> 
> On 2 Jun 2003 at 10:35, Fred Porter wrote:
> 
> > Interesting thread. We should keep in mind the
> difference
> > between pass/fail "compliance" using the
> performance ECB
> > method in 90.1 (where only ASHRAE instructions
> apply), and
> > LEED energy savings calculations which use the
> EMP, CIRs,
> > and perhaps DCV as part of our little world of
> alphabet
> > soup. 
> > 
> > Marcus Sheffer wrote:
> >             We will be submitting some shortly and
> this is
> >             how we have interpreted the CIRs.
> Schedule
> >             changes are acceptable is my
> understanding. The
> >             adopting authority in this case is the
> USGBC and
> >             they have stated that schedule changes
> are
> >             allowable for DCV. To be 100% sure,
> develop your
> >             methodology for calculating savings
> and submit
> >             it as a CIR.
> > 
> >             At 11:47 AM 06/02/2003 -0400, you
> wrote:
> >             Thanks for your reply.
> > 
> >             I re-read a CIR from 6/7/2001 (perhaps
> the one
> >             to which you are referring?) to be
> sure that I
> >             hadn't missed anything. In the Project
> Manager's
> >             Ruling, it says:"Under the ECM
> [Exceptional
> >             Calculation Method], schedule
> variations may be
> >             used as a basis of engineering
> calculations for
> >             discrete measures that are precluded
> by the
> >             reference standard or the LEEDTM EMP."
> > 
> >             However, the description of the ECM in
> section
> >             11.5 of the 90.1 manual states that
> the
> >             applicant must provide documentation
> supporting
> >             the accuracy of the exceptional method
> and that
> >             "This documentation must also show
> that the
> >             methods and its results: 1. Do not
> change the
> >             simulation program input parameters
> that are
> >             constrained by the ECM method or any
> other rules
> >             of the adopting authority. For
> example, the
> >             exceptional method may not violate the
> rule
> >             against using different operating
> schedules for
> >             proposed and budget runs."
> > 
> >             So it is still unclear to me whether
> or not
> >             schedule changes are acceptable. Have
> you
> >             successfully proposed schedule changes
> such as
> >             these through the ECM process? -----
> Original
> >             Message ----- From: Marcus Sheffer To:
> >             wmclaughlin at dmiinc.com Cc:
> BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM
> >             Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:04 AM
> Subject:
> >             Re: [BLDG-SIM] LEED / ASHRAE 90.1
> Modeling
> >             Question
> > 
> >             I'd suggest you review the CIRs more
> closely.
> >             DCV has been approved as an energy
> saving
> >             measure and you can modify schedules
> to simulate
> >             savings.You must follow the
> Exceptional
> >             Calculation Method (section 11.5) of
> the Energy
> >             Cost Budget Method of 90.1.
> > 
> >             At 10:14 AM 06/02/2003 -0400, you
> wrote: 
> >             Hi All,  
> > 
> >             We are currently working on our first
> LEED
> >             certification project. We use PowerDOE
> as a
> >             modeling tool, but these questions
> should apply
> >             to all modeling platforms. 
> > 
> >             The LEED process requires modeling
> practices to
> >             follow those outlined in the ASHRAE
> 90.1
> >             Standard User's Manual.The standard
> does not
> >             allow for the augmentation of
> schedules to model
> >             efficiency measures. This is a problem
> for us in
> >             that we often use schedules to
> simulate measures
> >             such as lighting occupancy sensors and
> demand
> >             controlled ventilation. 
> > 
> >             Typically: 
> >             -For lighting occupancy sensors, we
> adjust our
> >             known office schedules using a profile
> taken
> >             from the JIES (I'm afraid I don't have
> the
> >             specific source in front of me). -For
> demand
> >             controlled ventilation, we develop an
> hourly
> >             outside air Fraction of Design
> schedule for each
> >             AHU using known occupancy schedules
> and an
> >             assumption of 20 CFM per occupant. 
> > 
> >             To us, both of these methods seem to
> be 
=== message truncated ===


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