[BLDG-SIM] integrating walk in cooler in the HVAC system

Jeff Hirsch Jeff.Hirsch at DOE2.com
Sun Oct 22 19:05:59 PDT 2006


Brian was first talking about the "simplified" refrigeration model
capability in the standard version of eQUEST (or DOE-2) This
should only be used when the refrigeration system details are not known
and represent a small fraction of the total building electrical use.

The refrigeration version of eQUEST should be used for modeling where the
refrigeration system energy use is a major building load - this includes both
refrigerated display cases or refrigerated spaces such as coolers and/or freezers
in any building - commonly grocery or bigbox stores and refrigerated warehouses.

Additionally, the refrigeration version of eQUEST (or DOE-2) should be used
when modeling built-up DX air-handler systems (single duct only at this time) in
most building types (using single/multiple configurations of recip, screw or
frictionless centrifugal compressors) Use of this version is required since
you need to describe the compressors, condenser, controls, and refrigerant piping to
the air handlers and the simulation must correctly handle a refrigerant coil in an
airhandler.  The standard version of DOE-2 does not allow the accurate modeling
of these type of built-up DX systems, only packaged DX models are available in
the standard version.

Note that the eQUEST 3.61, pre-release posted to the http://doe2.com/eQUEST last
week, installs both the standard and refrigeration versions of eQUEST including online
help for both versions of DOE-2 ... however, the refrigeration version does not include
and building creation or EEM wizards. Ther is also an older 3.55 standard+refrigeration
version posted (the "DEER" version from late 2005)

If someone is not "able to get the Refrigeration addin to work in eQuest" they might consider
reading the documentation, examining the examples, and (as a last resort) sending us email
with a description of the problem being encountered.  The refrigeration version of eQUEST
and DOE-2 has been successfully used on hundreds of real designs over the past six years by
dozens of analysts ... this includes dozens of Costco type big box stores, Wal-Mart superstores,
large and small grocery stores (all major chains and dozens of independents), and small, large and
super-large (>1,000,000 sqft) refrigerated warehouses (coolers and freezers)  I know of at least
40 projects currently under way using this version for analysis of design options.

Someone should provide a link to the EPRI SST showing its availability, cost, frequency of update,
support, building type and refrigeration modeling capabilities, and the number and types of
projects undertaken (by analysts other than the developers.)  I would have thought that a posting
by CDH Energy Corp (one of the EPRI SST developers) would have been more informative on
its product rather than simply attempting to bad mouth a product they have seemingly never used.

---
Jeff Hirsch
James J. Hirsch & Associates
Building Performance Analysis Software & Consulting
12185 Presilla Road
Camarillo, CA 93012-9243 USA
phone: (805) 553-9000
fax: (805) 532-2401
email: Jeff.Hirsch at DOE2.com
web: http://DOE2.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Carlson" <carlson at cdhenergy.com>
To: <BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM>
Cc: <BLDG-SIM at gard.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] integrating walk in cooler in the HVAC system


> I've never been able to get the Refrigeration addin to work in eQuest.  
> Is there a secret?  I also thought it severely limited the HVAC systems 
> as it completed changed the internal calcuation engine structure?
> 
> SST from EPRI is available for $250 now.
> 
> Steve Carlson
> CDH Energy Corp.
> 
> Brian Fountain wrote:
>> The standard version of eQUEST (3.55 or 3.6) has a refrigeration model
>> in it which may be sufficient for your purposes.  It does allow zone
>> heating from refrigerated cases.  I would recommend starting here for
>> a simple refrigeration system such as your convenience store.
>>
>> The refrigeration version of eQUEST has considerable more detail on
>> the refrigeration system (with pressure & flow in refrigerant loops
>> and details on individual cases and other circuit components).  It
>> models both heating from the heat rejected from the refrigerated cases
>> and HVAC cooling from the refrigeration system.  Currently, the
>> refrigerated version "add in" is available for version 3.55.  The
>> refrigeration version for eQUEST 3.6 is reportedly "coming soon".
>>
>> While the SSS tool is available from EPRI -- the software is quite
>> expensive.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Brian Fountain
>> GreenSim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM [mailto:BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM] On Behalf Of Steven
>> Carlson
>> Sent: October 19, 2006 4:43 PM
>> To: BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM
>> Cc: BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM
>> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] integrating walk in cooler in the HVAC system
>>
>> The EPRI Supermarket Simulation Tool was designed to integrate 
>> refrigeration and HVAC. I think it's still available directly from
>> EPRI.
>>
>> Steve Carlson
>> CDH Energy Corp
>>
>> Abaza, Hussein wrote:
>>   
>>> Hi all;
>>>
>>> I am trying to integrate a walk-in cooler in a convenient store in 
>>> store's HVAC system. In winter, I would like to direct the heat from
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> the walk-in cooler cooling system to be used in heating the store.
>>>     
>> The 
>>   
>>> store is in Greenville, NC ( moderate climate). The convenient store
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> is still in the design phase now. The estimated heating load for the
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> convenient store is 48,000 Btu/hour. The walk-in cooler cooling 
>>> capacity should be appproximatelly four tons. The convenient store 
>>> design is an open plan with high ceiling. Does anyone have an idea
>>>     
>> of 
>>   
>>> how such integration might be?
>>>
>>> Thank you for your help.
>>>
>>> Dr. Hussein Abaza
>>>
>>> East Carolina Univeristy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>   
>>> *From:* BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM on behalf of Virdi Permana
>>> *Sent:* Thu 10/19/2006 11:46 AM
>>> *To:* BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM
>>> *Subject:* [BLDG-SIM] ASHRAE 90.1-2004: BAseline DEsign Questions
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am a newbie in Building Modeling and eQuest.
>>>
>>> Currently I am in the process of working in developing a baseline
>>>     
>> case.
>>   
>>> Question:
>>>
>>> 1. This is about Table G3.1, No.5, which is Building Envelope part
>>>     
>> of 
>>   
>>> the requirement for calculating proposed and baseline building 
>>> performance on ASHRAE 90.1-2004. Can anyone explain about point "b"
>>>     
>> in 
>>   
>>> Baseline Building performance column? My understanding is as follow:
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> It looks like what ever the proposed building is, the base line 
>>> building will always consist of: a) Insulation entirely above deck 
>>> type of roofs, b) Steel-framed type of above-grade walls, and c) 
>>> Steel-joist type of floors. Can anyone please confirm if my 
>>> understanding is correct or wrong?
>>>
>>> 2. This is about how to translate the requirement of Opaque elements
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> from Table 5.5-1 to 5.5-8 of ASHRAE 90.1-2004 to Equest (Design 
>>> Development Wizard: Shell component, windows 3 and 4). How do we use
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> the value from the table 5.5 on Equest exactly? I am a little bit 
>>> unclear about where I should plug in these values from this table on
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> eQuest.
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> If we see Wizard screen 3 of 25, say Roof Surfaces part.
>>>
>>> My understanding is:
>>>
>>> Construction and Ext Finish/Color part, this data we get from the 
>>> architecture drawing.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, does the value from the table 5.5 go straight to 
>>> Exterior Insulation and Add'l Insulation part?
>>>
>>> Any answer you could provide is greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Virdi Permana
>>>
>>> www.emsi-green.com
>>>
>>> ==================
>>> You received this e-mail because you are subscribed 
>>> to the BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM mailing list.  To unsubscribe 
>>> from this mailing list send a blank message to 
>>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at GARD.COM
>>>   
>>> ======================================================
>>> You received this e-mail because you are subscribed 
>>> to the BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM mailing list.  To unsubscribe 
>>> from this mailing list send a blank message to 
>>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at GARD.COM
>>>   
>>>     
>>
>>   
> 
> -- 
> Steven Carlson P.E., LEED AP
> CDH Energy Corp.
> 33 N 1st St
> Evansville, WI  53536
> 608-882-0111
> www.cdhenergy.com
> 
> ======================================================
> You received this e-mail because you are subscribed 
> to the BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM mailing list.  To unsubscribe 
> from this mailing list send a blank message to 
> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at GARD.COM
> 
>

======================================================
You received this e-mail because you are subscribed 
to the BLDG-SIM at GARD.COM mailing list.  To unsubscribe 
from this mailing list send a blank message to 
BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at GARD.COM




More information about the Bldg-sim mailing list