[BLDG-SIM] 90.1 Appendix G fan power

Harvey Bryan Harvey.Bryan at asu.edu
Thu Jun 14 14:45:34 PDT 2007


Mike,

That is not exactly correct, 189P is including Appendix G (called
Appendix D in 189P) in their document as a normative appendix. So if
189P gets approved there will be a normative set of simulation rules for
the industry to use. It remains to be seen how 90.1 and 189 will operate
as jurisdiction begin to adopt 189. That will be a great seminar for a
future ASHRAE meeting. John Hogan was the chair of 189 and with the City
of Seattle he might have some ideas about how these two standards will
operate. 

I wrote a few weeks back suggesting that some Bldg-Sim people might want
to comment on Appendix G becoming normative. The 189P is currently under
public review with the comment period open until July 9th. The draft can
be downloaded from the ASHRAE web-site. 

Regards, 

Harvey Bryan
Professor
Arizona State University

-----Original Message-----
From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Rosenberg
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:40 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
Cc: sferfuson at ashrae.org
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 90.1 Appendix G fan power

David,

ASHRAE has changed the process for Appendix G since it is informative
and not normative. It no longer goes out for public review, nor are
official addenda issued. It just gets changed. I am not happy about
this, and it may change after the June ASHRAE meeting in Long Beach.
Anyway, the corresponding changes to G have been incorporated, and will
be released soon in the 2007 version. I am not sure how you deal with it
in the meantime
 
Mike


Michael Rosenberg
Oregon Department of Energy
625 Marion St. N.E.
Salem, OR 97301-3742
Phone : (503) 373-7809
Fax: (503) 373-7806

>>> "David S Eldridge" <DSE at grummanbutkus.com> 6/14/2007 1:19:08 PM >>>
Can someone point me to the reference where the addendum ac fan power
calculation method is incorporated to Appendix G?

I can see how this would tie into the ECB method, but there isn't
anything in the addendum document pointing to Appendix G.

Thanks!

 

From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Talbert
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 2:55 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com 
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 90.1 Appendix G fan power

 

The final approved version of addendum ac is currently on the ASHRAE
website (http://www.ashrae.org/technology/page/132).

 

Bill Talbert, PE, LEED(r) AP
Mechanical Systems

Phone: (608) 441-6677
E-mail: btalbert at aeieng.com 

Affiliated Engineers Inc.
5802 Research Park Blvd.
Madison, WI. 53719
Tel. (608) 238-2616
Fax. (608) 238-2614



>>> "Ellen Franconi" <efranconi at archenergy.com> 6/12/2007 2:20 PM >>>

In Addendum ac there is an adjustment for energy recovery for the
Baseline. This addendum hasn't been adopted yet but it should be soon. 

 

Ellen Franconi, Ph.D.
Energy Analysis Group Manager
Architectural Energy Corporation 
2540 Frontier Avenue, Suite 201 
Boulder, CO 80301 
303-444-4149 
303-444-4304 fax 
http://www.archenergy.com <http://www.archenergy.com/>  

________________________________

   

From: Michael Andelman [mailto:mike at andelmanlelek.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:21 PM
To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com 
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 90.1 Appendix G fan power 

 

ASHRAE 90.1 2004 Appendix G has pressure credits for filters, but not
for energy recovery devices. 

Thus, it would appear that any situation where energy recovery is
required, the as designed fan system is at a disadvantage since the
baseline fan bhp is calculated without any pressure credit, but the as
design system is sized to include the pressure drop through the energy
recovery device.  I've looked for interpretations on this, but could not
find any.  Does anyone know of a ruling on this? 

 

Thanks, 

Mike 


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