[Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 10, Issue 23
Beatriz Barreiro
beatrizbarreiro at ymail.com
Tue Sep 23 19:02:35 PDT 2008
Hi!
i have been trying to suscribe to the buildind sim lists in the yahoo. I can´t acess since I have a pending authorization. Who can help me with this?
Thanks
Beatriz Barreiro
----- Original Message ----
From: "bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org" <bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org>
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:01:53 PM
Subject: Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 10, Issue 23
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. LEED EAc1 for 4 storey residential building (Vikram Sami)
2. Re: LEED EAc1 for 4 storey residential building (Kendra Tupper)
3. Re: Glass center-of-glass to assembly U-Value? (Josh Greenfield)
4. Re: CFD Software for Built Environment (Zoon, W.A.C.)
5. Re: [Equest-users] FCU with outside air fan (Aulbach, John)
6. FCU with outside air fan (Yuvaraj Saravanan)
7. Re: FCU with outside air fan (Karen Walkerman)
8. HVAC Design Process Flowchart (Jason Glazer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:12:29 -0400
From: Vikram Sami <VSami at lasarchitect.com>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] LEED EAc1 for 4 storey residential building
To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Message-ID:
<55BA83825A482144A8637F9CAA981F7611537C77 at las-mail.lordaecksargent.internal>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm trying to do a feasibility study for a Multi Family Mixed-Use
residential project. Is ASHRAE 90.1 the governing code for this, or
should I be using ASHRAE 90.2?
Vikram Sami, LEED AP
Direct Phone 404-253-1466 | Direct Fax 404-253-1366
LORD, AECK & SARGENT ARCHITECTURE
1201 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 300, Atlanta, GA 30361
Responsive Design * Technological Expertise * Exceptional Service
Please visit our new website | www.lordaecksargent.com
<file:///\\www.lordaecksargent.com\>
P Think GREEN before you print.
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:16:36 -0600
From: Kendra Tupper <ktupper at rmi.org>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED EAc1 for 4 storey residential building
To: Vikram Sami <VSami at lasarchitect.com>,
<bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Message-ID: <C4FD4B34.2AE7%ktupper at rmi.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You would use 90.1. It falls under the scope listed in section 2.3(a) of
90.1-2004, and states that this codes applies to any multi-family structures
with more than 3 stories above grade.
On 9/22/08 1:12 PM, "Vikram Sami" <VSami at lasarchitect.com> wrote:
> I?m trying to do a feasibility study for a Multi Family Mixed-Use residential
> project. Is ASHRAE 90.1 the governing code for this, or should I be using
> ASHRAE 90.2?
>
> Vikram Sami, LEED AP
> Direct Phone 404-253-1466 | Direct Fax 404-253-1366
>
> LORD, AECK & SARGENT ARCHITECTURE
> 1201 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 300, Atlanta, GA 30361
> Responsive Design ? Technological Expertise ? Exceptional Service
> Please visit our new website | www.lordaecksargent.com
> <file:///\\www.lordaecksargent.com\>
>
> P Think GREEN before you print.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:23:24 -0500
From: "Josh Greenfield" <JGreenfield at primerachicago.com>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Glass center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?
To: "Zeng, Ming" <mzeng at leoadaly.com>,
<bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>, <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Message-ID:
<1873B5FA036E5C44B64225D88886F22C55EB1F at pelexch1.primerachicago.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Section 5.8.2.5 exception (b) allows the SHGC/SC
center-of-glass to be an acceptable alternative for determining
compliance with the SHGC/SC requirements for the overall fenestration
area.
Josh Greenfield, PE, LEED AP
Senior Associate
Primera Engineers, Ltd.
100 S. Wacker Drive, Suite 700
Chicago, IL 60606
312.606.0910 Main
312.242.6392 Direct
312.606.0415 Fax
jgreenfield at primerachicago.com
<blocked::mailto:jgreenfield at primerachicago.com>
http://www.primerachicago.com <http://www.primerachicago.com>
Be Green...please consider the environment before printing this email.
From: Zeng, Ming [mailto:mzeng at leoadaly.com]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:09 PM
To: Andrew Craig; Josh Greenfield; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org;
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Glass center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?
Can we use glass center of glass shading coefficient for the assembly ?
If not, is there any similar table for assembly shading coefficient
calculation?
Thanks.
Ming Zeng, PE, LEED(r) Accredited Professional
Mechanical Engineer
730 Second Avenue South, Suite 1100, Minneapolis, MN 55402-2455
T 612.338.8741 F 612.338.4840 D 612.341..9539
www.leoadaly.com <http://www.leoadaly.com> MZeng at leoadaly.com
<mailto:MZeng at leoadaly.com>
Please consider the environment before printing.
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
Craig
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 11:41 AM
To: Josh Greenfield; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org;
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Glass center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?
Attached is a handy spreadsheet from the Oregon Energy Code User's
Manual. Hopefully this is what you are looking for.
Regards,
Please note my new e-mail address: andrewc at interfaceeng.com
Andrew Craig, EIT,LEED AP/ Mechanical Designer/ Energy Analyst
INTERFACE ENGINEERING
direct 503.382.2696
________________________________
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Josh
Greenfield
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:07 AM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Glass center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?
Does anyone have any rules of thumb on a quick/easy approximation for
taking a Center-of-Glass U-value and converting it to an Assembly
U-value based on industry standard assembly constructions? I know this
depends on a lot of variables, like frame material and conductance, and
the size of the overall glass assembly, etc., but I'm just looking for a
quick estimate on performance reduction for comparisons to other window
types for a particular building.
Also, is there an ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Baseline glass Visible Light
Transmittance (VLT)?
Josh Greenfield, PE, LEED AP
Senior Associate
Primera Engineers, Ltd.
100 S. Wacker Drive, Suite 700
Chicago, IL 60606
312.606.0910 Main
312.242.6392 Direct
312.606.0415 Fax
jgreenfield at primerachicago.com
<blocked::mailto:jgreenfield at primerachicago.com>
http://www.primerachicago.com <http://www.primerachicago.com>
Be Green...please consider the environment before printing this email.
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:49:04 +0200
From: "Zoon, W.A.C." <W.A.C.Zoon at tue.nl>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
To: <fazia.alitoudert at daad-alumni.de>
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Message-ID:
<A8F615EE446C9B4D837FB67447C0D997027BA9A2 at EXCHANGE3.campus.tue.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Fazia,
CFD is a method where the domain is separated in small cells. This means that it gives a far more detailed picture, but as the spacial resolution becomes smaller, the time scale becomes smaller as well. In theory, there is no restriction on the total length of the simulation, but in practice the calculation time becomes very large. For example, I made a time dependent CFD simulation of an operating room last week. The simulated time was 15 minutes, but it took 4 days to calculate. This means your one-year simulation probably will not finish in your lifetime.
One solution for this problem is to use steady state simulations for some typical situations to get a feeling for the variation that you will encounter.
Good luck!
Kind regards,
Wiebe Zoon
---
TU/e
Department of Architecture, Building and Planning
Den Dolech 2 - Vertigo 6.16 - P.O Box 513 - 5600 MB Eindhoven - The Netherlands
Phone +31 40 247 5769
Fax +31 40 243 8595
w.a.c.zoon at tue.nl
-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of fazia.alitoudert at daad-alumni.de
Sent: vrijdag 12 september 2008 17:42
To: Costola, D.
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
Hello all,
I need to know the wind speed and wind direction at several heights close to facades of a building which is surrounded by other buildings.
I need this info later for an indoor energy simulation. I am thinking of using ENVI-met for this but it is a bit complicated and requires many runs.
... so I have very basic questions on CFD: can a CFD simulation be run for a period of time or is it limited to a specific time? is it possible to make a simulation for one year on an hourly basis i.e.
8760 hours with the corresponding series of wind speed and direction..
if yes, how time-consuming will it be? What are actually the main inputs needed by a CFD model?
is there any useful weblink to this issue?
Thanks,
Regards,Fazia
Zitat von "Costola, D." <D.Costola at tue.nl>:
>
> Hi Claire and Paul,
>
> Regarding CFX versus Fluent, my experience is that the "standard"
> pre processing tools are quite different.
>
> Gambit, the standard pre-processing tool for Fluent, is as
> user-friendly and powerful as CFX-Ansys.
> Just one example:
> On CFX (even the old CFX-Build) is relatively simple to create
> unstructured meshes with good control and, very important, the prism
> layer in the solid boundaries. I couldn't produce the same meshes
> using Gambit.
>
>
> Other important difference is the simulation automation process.
> On CFX the variables have meaningful names, and a lot of things can
> be done using simple text files and the graphic interface. On Fluent
> you need to compile small programs with complex syntax even for
> routine tasks such as create an inlet profile.
>
>
> Finally, no matter the program you use, spend some time reproducing
> benchmark results to assure that you have mastered the program.
> My experience is mainly in outdoor simulation, where you have some
> nice guidelines and benchmark data:
>
> http://www.costc14.bham.ac.uk/documents/Wg2/FinalDocument.pdf
>
> http://www.mi.uni-hamburg.de/fileadmin/files/forschung/techmet/cost/co
> st_732/pdf/BestPractiseGuideline_1-5-2007-www.pdf
>
> http://etheses.nottingham.ac.uk/archive/00000091/01/TongYangThesis2004
> .pdf
>
>
> About the benchmark data/cases for indoor flow I don't know.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Daniel C?stola
> TU/e
> Department of Architecture, Building and Planning
> Den Dolech 2 - Vertigo 6.16 - P.O Box 513 - 5600 MB Eindhoven - The
> Netherlands
> Phone +31 40 247 5760
> Fax +31 40 243 8595
> d.costola at tue.nl
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> Carey
> Sent: donderdag 11 september 2008 16:02
> To: 'Claire Das Bhaumik'
> Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
>
> Claire,
>
> Not a great deal of difference as far as I know. My friend at Buro
> Happold uses CFX instead of Fluent without any problems on the work he
> does. It's possibly more tightly integrated than Fluent in ICEM or AI
> workbench at a guess as they've had it longer. As far as I know it's
> also cheaper and thats got to be a good aspect as if it can do more or
> less the same for less money I know which I'd be getting. There are
> probably differences in the turbulence models available, etc but
> without looking into a detailed breakdown of features I can't really help there.
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Claire
> Das Bhaumik
> Sent: 11 September 2008 09:48
> To: Paul Carey
> Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
>
> Any idea about ANSYS CFX?
>
>
>
> ANSYS own both codes now and tell me that CFX can do everything that
> Fluent can do and recommended it to me really in preference to Fluent
> for building applications. What's the difference?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Claire
>
>
>
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> Carey
> Sent: 10 September 2008 15:25
> To: 'antixs antixs'
> Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
>
>
>
> Antixs, et al
>
>
>
> Airpak is okay and is perfectly adapted to HVAC applications as it
> includes fan details, etc allowing you introduce swirl, etc. It is
> expensive for what you get though. It has improved, but the gridding
> was fairly rough and ready if you get complex geometry and can throw a
> wobbly if you are doing external flow analysis for things like
> pedestrian comfort assessments where you could need large variance in
> your grid cell size. If you are doing rooms, etc you'll be fine. I'd agree with Kai's comments though.
>
>
>
> Not used FloVent. It's quite pretty from memory, it's outputs are
> well suited to HVAC work and make the whole CFD (Colour For Directors) stand up.
> Whether it is good for complex analysis I'm not sure and will have to
> leave that to others to comment on.
>
>
>
> CHAM's flair is HVAC specific and there is even a link with Hevacomp
> so if you've done your room calculations in that then there is a
> reduced version which will let you do some basic flow analysis.
>
>
>
> The problem with most of these simplified tools however tends to be
> the gridding which has a tendancy to let them down and so convergence
> of solutions can be hard to achieve. It really does depend on what
> you are going to use it for and what sort of problems.
>
>
>
> Sorry about copying your message below to the list Kai, but I think
> others will lose the thinking of the thread and my comments as well,
> hope you don't mind.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Kang, Kai [mailto:Kai.Kang at jacobs.com]
> Sent: 10 September 2008 14:52
> To: antixs antixs; Paul Carey
> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
>
> Antixs,
>
>
>
> Both Airpak and Flovent are customized CFD programs for building HVAC
> applications. Airpak wraps around the basic Fluent solver, and
> provides a user-interface that is much more geared towards building
> engineers, as well as some additional functions that is only available
> with Airpak, such as solar heat gain.
>
>
>
> I have some experience with Airpak a while ago, being a Fluent user
> for many years, I did not find any problem of learning the program and
> will say an engineer without prior experience should be able to pick
> up the modeling pretty quickly - the problem, however, is that if
> there is any issue with the model, such as if the solution is
> diverging, it is very difficult to "debug" the model in Airpak. I
> assume the same would be for Flovent, so in essence I would say they provide the easiness in "cookie-cutter"
> applications.
>
>
>
> I am not copying this to the entire mailing list, as I may be talking
> a bit too specific.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kai
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: antixs antixs [mailto:antixs.antixs at gmail.com]
> Sent: 10 September 2008 14:36
> To: Paul Carey
> Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
>
> Paul,
> Thanks for such detailed information! They are really helpful. Do you
> have any experience with Airpak and Flovent? Heard that these two
> tools are specially tailored for built environment.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> antixs
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Paul Carey <Paul at zed-uk.com> wrote:
>
> Antixs
>
>
>
> I think this depends largely on your budget and proficiency.
>
>
>
> If you want to go full on with CFD, then I'd suggest Fluent
> (http://www.fluent.com/) everyday. It is very widely used and well
> trusted tool. ICEM is a good meshing tool, but we like Pointwise and
> Gridgen for it's meshing simplicity.
>
>
>
> Other than that, I know CCM+ from CD-Adapco
> (http://www.cd-adapco.com/) is very good too. Makes the job quite
> easy. These tools are very expensive though.
>
>
>
> If you want the same sort of capability and are willing to use mainly
> text input then I'd suggest OpenFoam (http://www.openfoam.org) - a
> very powerful open source CFD tool. You could use something like
> pointwise to mesh it, output a fluent case file and then openfoam has
> it's own fluent case file converter program which you could use to then convert it and process it.
> You'd probably need a decent post processor too, but clearly then you
> are only paying for those programs as openfoam itself
> is free. If you can do it all by text then you wouldn't need to pay
> anything at all. It will require you to use Linux though. I saw a
> pre-compiled bootable live CD distro of this recently which was quite
> impressive so it allows you to check it out just by inserting CD into
> computer and booting to it. The link for that is:
> http://www.caelinux.com/CMS/
>
>
>
>
>
> Of the cheaper and possibly more usable programs for quick built
> environment analysis. Cham Pheonics (http://www.cham.co.uk/) is good value for money.
> It's Flair add on is pretty simple to use. I'd still personally get a
> good CAD program to make sure your geometry is spot on before
> importing it, but then it would do the job well. A lot of companies
> use it becasue of it's relative simplicity and good price.
>
>
>
> Another which is aimed at non-CFD experts is DesignBuilder CFD
> (http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/). It is in beta test stage and looks
> promising. It'll be great for simple stuff. Wouln't recommend
> anything that uses just cartesian grids for complex jobs, but for the
> large majority of jobs it will suit, especially if it's internal room
> flows, etc. Should be quite competitive on the price too.
>
>
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Dr Paul Carey
> Director
>
> Zero Energy Design Ltd
> 10A Portland Place
> 2-22 Mottram Road
> Stalybridge
> SK15 3AD
> UK
>
> T: +44 0161 3386200
> F: +44 0161 3031281
> M: +44 0789 4098012
> E: paul at zed-uk.com
>
> http://www.zed-uk.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of antixs
> antixs
>
> Sent: 10 September 2008 05:13
>
>
> To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Just wonder what CFD softwares are popularly used for analyzing built
> environemnt in architect/MEP consulting firms? Also which one is
> relatively eaiser to use?
>
>
>
> Many thanks.
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1661 - Release Date:
> 9/10/2008 6:00 AM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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> 9/10/2008 6:00 AM
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:04:09 -0700
From: "Aulbach, John" <jaulbach at nexant.com>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] FCU with outside air fan
To: "Yuvaraj Saravanan" <Yuvaraj.Saravanan at arup.com>,
<bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>, <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Message-ID:
<99A2815FF4D295488E034407278B16A4022BB6AF at sacexm01.nexant.corp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Try a 4-pipe induction unit. I believe that can have primary and
secondary coils. Ignore that you can't model the fan coil fan. It is
insignificant.
I used to do this to model a guest room fan coil with supply and exhaust
air to the guest room. Don't do every room. Do building facing
directions.
John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM
Project Manager
Nexant, Inc.
701 West Kimberly Ave., Suite 245
Placentia, CA 92870-6342 USA
Phone: 714-524-4402
Fax: 714-524-4407
email: jaulbach at nexant.com
-----Original Message-----
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Yuvaraj
Saravanan
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:05 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] FCU with outside air fan
Hi All,
I am trying to model a residential unit served by a Fan coil unit (FCU).
It has a separate outside air fan and exhaust fan operating 24/7. The
fan coil unit is available to operate for all hours but should operate
intermittently depending on the room load.
I tried modeling this by selecting a 4-pipe FCU and specified the
exhaust and outside air at the thermal zone level. I made the FCU to
operate intermittently by making the "Fan on mode" to be intermittent.
By doing this, what I observed in the hourly report was:
1. FCU unit cycles intermittently as intended.
2. Exhaust fan operates continuously (24/7) (with the specified cfm) as
intended.
3. However, the outside air cycles per the FCU.
*If the FCU is off, then OA cfm is zero
*If FCU supply air cfm < the OSA cfm specified at the zone level, then
hourly OSA cfm matches the FCU supply air cfm *If FCU supply air cfm >
the OSA cfm specified at the zone level, then hourly OSA cfm matches the
cfm specified at the zone level.
As mentioned before, I want my outside air to operate continuously with
constant flow-rate. Can anyone suggest me a way to model this system?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Regards,
Yuvaraj
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:11:26 -0700
From: "Yuvaraj Saravanan" <Yuvaraj.Saravanan at arup.com>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] FCU with outside air fan
To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Message-ID:
<141D50E6B1F9E247BD450DA0BB288FE103619771 at l-aexc01.global.arup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
I am trying to model a residential unit served by a Fan coil unit (FCU). It has a separate outside air fan and exhaust fan operating 24/7.. The fan coil unit is available to operate for all hours but should operate intermittently depending on the room load.
I tried modeling this by selecting a 4-pipe FCU and specified the exhaust and outside air at the thermal zone level. I made the FCU to operate intermittently by making the ?Fan on mode? to be intermittent. By doing this, what I observed in the hourly report was:
1. FCU unit cycles intermittently as intended.
2. Exhaust fan operates continuously (24/7) (with the specified cfm) as intended.
3. However, the outside air cycles per the FCU.
?If the FCU is off, then OA cfm is zero
?If FCU supply air cfm < the OSA cfm specified at the zone level, then hourly OSA cfm matches the FCU supply air cfm ?If FCU supply air cfm > the OSA cfm specified at the zone level, then hourly OSA cfm matches the cfm specified at the zone level.
As mentioned before, I want my outside air to operate continuously with constant flow-rate. Can anyone suggest me a way to model this system?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Regards,
Yuvaraj
> ______________________________________________
Yuvaraj Saravanan, PE
Engineer
> Arup
12777 West Jefferson Boulevard Suite 200
Los Angeles CA 90066
> tel: 1 310 578 4400
dir: 1 310 578 4521
> fax: 1 310 577 7011
internal freecall: x20521
yuvaraj.saravanan at arup.com
> www.arup.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:54:30 -0400
From: "Karen Walkerman" <kwalkerman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] FCU with outside air fan
To: "Yuvaraj Saravanan" <Yuvaraj.Saravanan at arup.com>
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Message-ID:
<69a9bc0a0809230954l2e0460d1iae7b0934d7f696d2 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have noticed this too. The constant volume exhaust fan merely means that
the fan runs constantly, but may not draw air through the space (read the
help file on this, it's more eloquent than I am).
What I have done to remedy this issue using other system types is specify
that the system fan operates as a variable volume fan, with the fan curve
being linear. This will allow the fan to modulate down to the required
exhaust airflow. If you look at the help files for "SUPPLY-KW/FLOW" it
shows the fan curves for variable speed fans, cycling fans, discharge, etc.
So this is the way that the program models cycling fans already, and you can
use it to your advantage with the exhaust airflow piece.
Hope this works!
--
Karen
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Yuvaraj Saravanan <
Yuvaraj.Saravanan at arup.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am trying to model a residential unit served by a Fan coil unit (FCU). It
> has a separate outside air fan and exhaust fan operating 24/7. The fan coil
> unit is available to operate for all hours but should operate intermittently
> depending on the room load.
>
> I tried modeling this by selecting a 4-pipe FCU and specified the exhaust
> and outside air at the thermal zone level. I made the FCU to operate
> intermittently by making the "Fan on mode" to be intermittent. By doing
> this, what I observed in the hourly report was:
>
> 1. FCU unit cycles intermittently as intended.
> 2. Exhaust fan operates continuously (24/7) (with the specified cfm) as
> intended.
> 3. However, the outside air cycles per the FCU.
> ?If the FCU is off, then OA cfm is zero
> ?If FCU supply air cfm < the OSA cfm specified at the zone level, then
> hourly OSA cfm matches the FCU supply air cfm ?If FCU supply air cfm > the
> OSA cfm specified at the zone level, then hourly OSA cfm matches the cfm
> specified at the zone level.
>
> As mentioned before, I want my outside air to operate continuously with
> constant flow-rate. Can anyone suggest me a way to model this system?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
> Regards,
> Yuvaraj
>
> ______________________________________________
> Yuvaraj Saravanan, PE
> Engineer
>
> Arup
> 12777 West Jefferson Boulevard Suite 200
> Los Angeles CA 90066
> tel: 1 310 578 4400
> dir: 1 310 578 4521
> fax: 1 310 577 7011
> internal freecall: x20521
> yuvaraj.saravanan at arup.com
> ***www.arup.com*
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:30:58 -0500
From: Jason Glazer <jglazer at gard.com>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] HVAC Design Process Flowchart
To: bldg-sim at onebuilding.org
Message-ID: <48D935E2.1030202 at gard.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Sorry about this request being off topic.
I'm working on a project related to the process of chilled
water plant design and an trying to find out if anyone has
ever put together a flowchart of the HVAC design process.
More specifically, a flowchart of the design process a
mechanical engineer would go through in designing a chilled
water system for a building. I'm not talking about the
actual diagram that lays out the components but rather the
decision making steps an engineer would go through. An
example of one box in the flowchart might be "does the load
vary enough to justify multiple chillers? yes or no."
Thanks
Jason
--
Jason Glazer, P.E., GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair
Admin for onebuilding.org building performance mailing lists
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