[Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

JRR energy.wwind at cox.net
Tue Apr 21 19:44:06 PDT 2009


JRR wrote;

Good Point !!  Do you take the radiation temperature at the virtual 
surface of the open window ??
NO.  It is the wrong answer, but now you need to know things like the RT 
of an adjacent building,
background sky RT, luminosity...

Peter Simmonds wrote:
>
> Ah, another can of worms. MRT is probably the least understood and 
> certainly the least calculated of space thermodynamics. ASHRAE RP 1383 
> was specifically set up to calculate MRT for spaces, even having 
> unusual configurations. It should be ready in about 18 months or so?
>
> So Vikram, with reference to your analogy, how about this one?
>
> Imagine a space that is naturally ventilated through an open window, 
> at this certain time of the day the occupant is in such a position 
> that the suns rays reach the occupant through the open window. What 
> would the MRT be in the space and how would this affect the occupants 
> comfort.
>
>  
>
> Peter Simmonds. Ph.D.
> Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group
>
> IBE Consulting Engineers
> 14130 Riverside Drive Suite 201
> Sherman Oaks, CA 91423
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Vikram Sami [mailto:VSami at lasarchitect.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:02 PM
> *To:* Peter Simmonds; Timothy Moore; Karen Walkerman; 
> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool
>
>  
>
> It's an interesting conundrum that the times that MRT becomes a 
> significant player in the comfort calculation is when there is an 
> uneven radiant field (hot or cold window; fireplace; thermal mass 
> wall). In such a situation, is it fair to average out the MRT for an 
> entire room? Don't your view factors change drastically depending on 
> your position in the room?
>
>  
>
> Does one person too hot near the window and another person too cold on 
> the inside equal thermal comfort?  
>
>  
>
> *Vikram Sami,* LEED AP
> Direct Phone 404-253-1466 | Direct Fax 404-253-1366
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>
> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Peter 
> Simmonds
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:36 PM
> *To:* Timothy Moore; Karen Walkerman; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool
>
>  
>
> I do not think the thermal comfort tool calculates the MRT it is a 
> user input.
>
>  
>
> Peter Simmonds. Ph.D.
> Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group
>
> IBE Consulting Engineers
> 14130 Riverside Drive Suite 201
> Sherman Oaks, CA 91423
> p:   (818) 377-8220 ext. 246
> f:    (818) 377-8230
> m:  (818) 219-1284
>
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of 
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged 
> information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution 
> is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
> the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Timothy Moore [mailto:timothy.moore at iesve.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:00 AM
> *To:* Karen Walkerman; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool
>
>  
>
> Karen,
>
>  
>
> The ASHRAE-55 Thermal Comfort Tool created by the UC Berkeley Center 
> for the Built Environment and available from ASHRAE publications (if I 
> recall correctly) includes a very easy-to-use MRT calculator for 
> rectangular rooms. It allows for MRT at a particular position in that 
> room, separate surface temperatures and dimensions for surfaces, and 
> also the inclusion of a "panel" or other area within one of the walls 
> (such as a cold/hot window, heating panel, etc.) that has a distinct 
> temperature. This is part of a very handy tool for determining PPD, 
> etc. based upon the typical range of human thermal comfort variables 
> (clo value, activity level, air temp, MRT, humidity, air movement).
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
> Timothy
>
>  
>
>  
>
> IES logo CMYK
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>
> *Timothy Moore
> **Senior Consultant
> Special Projects *
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>  
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>  
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>  
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>  
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>  
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>  
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>  
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>  
>
> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Karen 
> Walkerman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:50 AM
> *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool
>
>  
>
> Hello,
>
> Is anyone aware of a simple Mean Radiant Temperature calculation 
> tool?  I'm looking for something that will calculate MRT for a basic 
> rectangular room.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Karen
>
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