[Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

mike barker mike at mikebarker.co.za
Thu Apr 23 02:35:47 PDT 2009


Vikram,

 

     “ Does one person too hot near the window and another person too cold
on the inside equal thermal comfort “

 

The danger with an “averaged” parameter is the assumption that one single
parameter can measure the comfort properties of a room - yet alone for a
whole building ?  The daylighting people are trying to develop an
alternative to the “daylight factor” – they face the same issues.  We
probably need an annualised colour-coded plan view of thermal comfort ( even
visual comfort ) for the floor space ?

 

 

Tim,

 

Also see the book by Mark Bessoudo.    It seems he wrote a book about his
thesis.   He references the papers by Huizenga & Zhang

 

Building façades and thermal comfort: The impacts of climate, solar shading,
and glazing on the indoor thermal environment

by Mark Bessoudo, 

 

 

Below is a cut and paste from Amazon – yada yada yada 


 

Editorial Reviews

 

There is currently a trend of designing new commercial buildings with large
glazed façades. Maintaining comfort in the perimeter zones of these
buildings is difficult due to their transmittance of solar radiation and
exposure to cold outdoor air temperature. Designing these buildings with
high-performance façades, however, can improve energy performance, provide a
high-quality thermal and visual environment, and reduce thermal loads. This
book presents an experimental and simulation study of the indoor thermal
environment of a perimeter zone office with glass façade and solar shading
device. The study investigates the impact of climate, glazing type, and
shading properties on thermal comfort. By considering comfort as a key
consideration in building design from the initial design stage through to
building occupancy, it can be ensured that new high-performance and passive
solar buildings are, not only aesthetically pleasing and energy-efficient,
but also comfortable and enjoyable places to work and live. 

 

About the Author

Mark holds degrees in Biological/Environmental Engineering and Building
Engineering. He was a researcher with the Canadian Solar Buildings Research
Network and was awarded with the 2005 "Energy Ambassador" prize by the
Government of Canada. Mark is currently a green building consultant in
Toronto. 

 

•           Paperback: 248 pages

•           Publisher: VDM Verlag Dr. Müller (November 27, 2008)

•           Language: English

•           ISBN-10: 3639098242

•           ISBN-13: 978-3639098242

 

   Thanks,

       Mike Barker

       mike at mikebarker.co.za

       +27 (0) 83 627 7673

       skype  mike.barker.mba

 

  _____  

From: Timothy Moore [mailto:timothy.moore at iesve.com] 
Sent: 22 April 2009 05:19 AM
To: JRR; Peter Simmonds
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; Vikram Sami
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

 

Regarding asymmetrical thermal comfort and that involving transmitted
short-wave radiation, the following link will get you an excellent (lengthy,
detailed, and very helpful) paper on thermal comfort in proximity to
windows. It discusses the effects of glass surface temperatures and
transmission properties, along with possible options for including a rating
of thermal comfort performance on NFRC window labeling.

 

Huizenga, C., H. Zhang, P. Mattelaer, T. Yu, E. Arens, and P. Lyons, 2006.
Window
<http://www.cbe.berkeley.edu/research/pdf_files/SR_NFRC2006_FinalReport.pdf>
Performance for Human Thermal Comfort. Final Report to the National
Fenestration Rating Council, Center for the Built Environment, University of
California, Berkeley, February.

 

You do not need an open window to have comfort issues associated with
transmitted short-wave radiation, nor does it have to be direct-beam
radiation—any window permitting occupants to receive a good dose of
transmitted diffuse and/or direct solar radiation is reason enough to care
about this effect. The paper at the CBE link above provides a very useful
means of estimating the contribution of both direct-beam and diffuse solar
radiation. The discussion of the impact of diffuse radiation begins on page
44 and the discussion of direct radiation starts on page 49.

 

 <http://www.cbe.berkeley.edu/research/briefs-thermmodel.htm> CBE’s Advanced
Thermal Comfort Model  

This tool can used to study the effectiveness of energy saving design
strategies, such as facade designs and advanced HVAC systems, in terms of
occupant comfort. 

In addition, the CBE has an Advanced Thermal Comfort model that they will be
happy to run for you as consultants to your project (and which their
industry partners also have direct access to) which takes into account
short-wave radiation striking a human subject, along with numerous very
detailed thermal comfort parameters. This tool was used for several key
sections of the paper linked above, so you can see examples of the model and
results there. Not only does this model account for occupant attributes like
body mass (along with the usual comfort parameters), it actually models 16
different human body parts and the constriction and dilation of blood
vessels that accompanies different thermo-physiological states. This model,
which is not really all that difficult to work with, has been used for CBE
consulting to the automotive industry and a in-house by handful of large A&E
firms. If you want to learn more, the following link takes you to the
section of the CBE web site describing this tool:

 

Cheers,

Timothy

 

 


IES logo CMYK


Timothy Moore 
Senior Consultant
Special Projects 


Office: 415 983-0603
 <mailto:timothy.moore at iesve.com> timothy.moore at iesve.com
 <http://www.iesve.com/> www.iesve.com 


**Design, Simulate + Innovate with the <Virtual Environment>**


 <http://www.iesve.com/disclaimer.html> Email Disclaimer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: JRR [mailto:energy.wwind at cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:44 PM
To: Peter Simmonds
Cc: Vikram Sami; Timothy Moore; Karen Walkerman;
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

 

JRR wrote;

Good Point !!  Do you take the radiation temperature at the virtual surface
of the open window ??
NO.  It is the wrong answer, but now you need to know things like the RT of
an adjacent building,
background sky RT, luminosity...

Peter Simmonds wrote: 

Ah, another can of worms. MRT is probably the least understood and certainly
the least calculated of space thermodynamics. ASHRAE RP 1383 was
specifically set up to calculate MRT for spaces, even having unusual
configurations. It should be ready in about 18 months or so? 

So Vikram, with reference to your analogy, how about this one?

Imagine a space that is naturally ventilated through an open window, at this
certain time of the day the occupant is in such a position that the suns
rays reach the occupant through the open window. What would the MRT be in
the space and how would this affect the occupants comfort.

 

Peter Simmonds. Ph.D.
Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group

IBE Consulting Engineers
14130 Riverside Drive Suite 201
Sherman Oaks, CA 91423
p:   (818) 377-8220 ext. 246
f:    (818) 377-8230
m:  (818) 219-1284

This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message

 

  _____  

From: Vikram Sami [mailto:VSami at lasarchitect.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:02 PM
To: Peter Simmonds; Timothy Moore; Karen Walkerman;
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

 

It’s an interesting conundrum that the times that MRT becomes a significant
player in the comfort calculation is when there is an uneven radiant field
(hot or cold window; fireplace; thermal mass wall). In such a situation, is
it fair to average out the MRT for an entire room? Don’t your view factors
change drastically depending on your position in the room? 

 

Does one person too hot near the window and another person too cold on the
inside equal thermal comfort?  

 

Vikram Sami, LEED AP 
Direct Phone 404-253-1466 | Direct Fax 404-253-1366 

LORD, AECK & SARGENT ARCHITECTURE
1201 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 300, Atlanta, GA 30361 
Responsive Design * Technological Expertise * Exceptional Service 
Please visit our new website |  <file:///\\%5C%5Cwww.lordaecksargent.com%5C>
www.lordaecksargent.com

P Think GREEN before you print.

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter Simmonds
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:36 PM
To: Timothy Moore; Karen Walkerman; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

 

I do not think the thermal comfort tool calculates the MRT it is a user
input.

 

Peter Simmonds. Ph.D.
Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group

IBE Consulting Engineers
14130 Riverside Drive Suite 201
Sherman Oaks, CA 91423
p:   (818) 377-8220 ext. 246
f:    (818) 377-8230
m:  (818) 219-1284

This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message

 

  _____  

From: Timothy Moore [mailto:timothy.moore at iesve.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:00 AM
To: Karen Walkerman; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

 

Karen,

 

The ASHRAE-55 Thermal Comfort Tool created by the UC Berkeley Center for the
Built Environment and available from ASHRAE publications (if I recall
correctly) includes a very easy-to-use MRT calculator for rectangular rooms.
It allows for MRT at a particular position in that room, separate surface
temperatures and dimensions for surfaces, and also the inclusion of a
“panel” or other area within one of the walls (such as a cold/hot window,
heating panel, etc.) that has a distinct temperature. This is part of a very
handy tool for determining PPD, etc. based upon the typical range of human
thermal comfort variables (clo value, activity level, air temp, MRT,
humidity, air movement).

 

Cheers,

Timothy

 

 


IES logo CMYK


Timothy Moore 
Senior Consultant
Special Projects 

Mobile: 415 810 2495 
Office: 415 983-0603
 <mailto:timothy.moore at iesve.com> timothy.moore at iesve.com
 <http://www.iesve.com/> www.iesve.com 


**Design, Simulate + Innovate with the <Virtual Environment>**


 <http://www.iesve.com/disclaimer.html> Email Disclaimer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Karen Walkerman
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:50 AM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] MRT Tool

 

Hello,

Is anyone aware of a simple Mean Radiant Temperature calculation tool?  I'm
looking for something that will calculate MRT for a basic rectangular room.

Thanks!

--
Karen

 
 
 





  _____  



 
 
 
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