[Bldg-sim] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems

João Pedro Santos joao.santos at lmit.pt
Fri Jan 9 10:48:59 PST 2009


Dear Tianzhen,



Do you know if the report you mentioned will be made available on internet (where/when)? Are there any major conclusions that you can provide already, concerning the speeding up of simulations in Energy Plus? I guess that until the whole E+ is rewritten to allow multicore processing, your results could help everyone a lot!



Thanks in advance,

João Pedro Santos


[cid:image001.jpg at 01C9728A.EE3C1CA0]



-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: sexta-feira, 9 de Janeiro de 2009 18:21
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7



Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to

      bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org



To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

      http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

      bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org



You can reach the person managing the list at

      bldg-sim-owner at lists.onebuilding.org



When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

than "Re: Contents of Bldg-sim digest..."





Today's Topics:



   1. Re: Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 6 (Tianzhen Hong)

   2. Re: EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems (Edwin Lee)

   3. EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems, Standard E+ Machiine (JRR)

   4. high CWLT chiller performance curves (Martin Belusko)

   5. chilled water pump power (xiao dongyi)

   6. Re: chilled water pump power (James V. Dirkes II  P.E.)

   7. Re: chilled water pump power (William Bahnfleth)

   8. Is Garage Lighting a Regulated Process Load? (Lam, Linda)

   9. Re: chilled water pump power (James V. Dirkes II  P.E.)

  10. IBPSA-USA Chicago Meeting Announcement (Ellis, Peter)

  11. Fwd: Problems in compiling the weather data files of  IBPSA

      (M F A Ramadan)

  12. Re: chilled water pump power (Itzhak Maor)

  13. Re: Fwd: Problems in compiling the weather data files of

      IBPSA (Crawley, Drury)

  14. Re: high CWLT chiller performance curves (Peter Simmonds)

  15. Re: chilled water pump power (xiao dongyi)

  16. Re: chilled water pump power (Zhuolun Chen)

  17. Lab ACH Setback with Packaged Single Zone Systems (Kendra Tupper)

  18. New Interfaces and Standard 140-2007 Testing Reports for

      EnergyPlus (Crawley, Drury)

  19. Re: chilled water pump power (James V. Dirkes II  P.E.)





----------------------------------------------------------------------



Message: 1

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:48:18 -0800

From: Tianzhen Hong <thong at lbl.gov>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 6

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org, alexc at 2rw.com

Message-ID: <496674A2.5060304 at lbl.gov>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



Alex,



We did an EnergyPlus run time analysis for CEC based on E+ version 2.2.

CEC is close to publishing the report. The report answers most of your

questions.



Tianzhen



On 1/8/2009 12:01 PM, bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org wrote:

> Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to

>     bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

>

> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>     http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>     bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org

>

> You can reach the person managing the list at

>     bldg-sim-owner at lists.onebuilding.org

>

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> than "Re: Contents of Bldg-sim digest..."

>

>

> Today's Topics:

>

>    1. [BLDG-SIM] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems (Alex Chapin)

>    2. new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes

>       (Cramer Silkworth)

>    3. Re: new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes

>       (Aulbach, John)

>    4. chillers system 8 (Elena Verani)

>    5. Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P. Hay)

>    6. FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P. Hay)

>    7. Re: Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (James V. Dirkes II  P.E.)

>    8. FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P. Hay)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:51:44 -0500

> From: Alex Chapin <alexc at 2rw.com>

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] [BLDG-SIM] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems

> To: "bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org" <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID:

>     <6AF9AFA739099A43B163308B4B0892A42CA0E050AF at VMBX107.ihostexchange.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Does anyone have recommendations on computer performance specs for reducing the run times?  When large models are run, the lengthy run time creates an annoyance when trying to debug issues in the model or perform parametric runs.

>

> My idea was to create a modeling server from a decked out PC.  The hope being that I will be able to have other non-modeling programs running on my computer and perform the energy simulation remotely on the modeling server.  What combination of processor, RAM, Motherboard, video card, etc. would be ideal in creating a modeling server?  Could this modeling server be set up to run more than one eQUEST or EnergyPlus type simulation at a time?

>

> My personal computer currently has a dual core processor, but I saw an email that said programs like EnergyPlus and eQUEST will only use one of the two cores.  Is there any program which can use both?  If not, would getting a higher performing single core processor be better?

>

> Any advice on this topic would be much appreciated,

>

> Alex Chapin, E.I.T., LEED AP

> Energy Engineer

> 2rw Consultants

> T: 434-296-2116 ext. 101

> F: 434-977-1862

> alexc at 2rw.com

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090107/56a25eb7/attachment.html>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 23:32:15 +0100

> From: "Cramer Silkworth" <silkworth at transsolar.com>

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes

> To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID:

>     <FE872D9C4591BF44AAFD986BF73368FF032D0A28 at webmail.transsolar.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Hi All,

>

> I'm new to eQuest, testing it out to see if we like it for some modeling

> tasks over our current software (Trnsys). I'm trying to model a building

> in which every floor has a different shape. Can someone tell me the best

> way to approach this? Should each floor be a new shell? For that matter,

> what is a 'shell', anyways?

>

> Thanks,

> Cramer

>

>

> J. Cramer Silkworth

>

> Transsolar Climate Engineering

>

> Technical consulting for energy efficiency and environmental quality in

> buildings.

>

> 145 Hudson Street

>

> Suite 402

>

> New York, NY 10013

>

> Office: 212-219-2255

>

> silkworth at transsolar.com

>

>

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090107/80686c9a/attachment-0001.htm>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:48:08 -0800

> From: "Aulbach, John" <jaulbach at nexant.com>

> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with varying floor

>     shapes

> To: "Cramer Silkworth" <silkworth at transsolar.com>,

>     <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID:

>     <99A2815FF4D295488E034407278B16A40276D969 at sacexm01.nexant.corp>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Hi Cramer:

>

> I have never used TRNSYS, but I always had the impression it was more

> process versus whole building oriented.

>

> You will want to build your differently shaped floors in the Design

> Development (DD) Wizard. The Schematic Wizard only allow on shape. In

> the DD Wizard, you can trace AutoCAD DWG files to develop each floor.

> My drift on the "shell" concept is that it is indeed a floor, where

> there are several zones on the same level. The shell can also be the

> floor of another building, thus the ability not only to to different

> floor plans in the same building, but different buildings in the same

> run.

>

> Hope this gets you started.

>

> John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM

> Project Manager

> Nexant, Inc.

> 701 West Kimberly Ave., Suite 245

> Placentia, CA 92870-6342 USA

> Phone: 714-524-4402

> Fax: 714-524-4407

> email: jaulbach at nexant.com

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Cramer

> Silkworth

> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:32 PM

> To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with varying floor shapes

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> I'm new to eQuest, testing it out to see if we like it for some modeling

> tasks over our current software (Trnsys). I'm trying to model a building

> in which every floor has a different shape. Can someone tell me the best

> way to approach this? Should each floor be a new shell? For that matter,

> what is a 'shell', anyways?

>

> Thanks,

> Cramer

>

>

> J. Cramer Silkworth

>

> Transsolar Climate Engineering

>

> Technical consulting for energy efficiency and environmental quality in

> buildings.

>

> 145 Hudson Street

>

> Suite 402

>

> New York, NY 10013

>

> Office: 212-219-2255

>

> silkworth at transsolar.com

>

>

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090107/ff66e3c8/attachment-0001.htm>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:20:35 -0000

> From: "Elena Verani" <everani at hilsonmoran.com>

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] chillers system 8

> To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID:

>     <3BBCBF3E24390749A2059774C10007A202C40BFC at HMP107.hilson_moran.local>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Hi all,

> I'm modelling an office building with a floor area of more than 240000

> sf.

> The baseline system is system 8 VAV w/PFP boxes and I will need 2

> equally sized centrifugal chillers.

> My question is: how do the 2 chillers interact? Both of them working at

> half load or one working at full load and the second one only working

> when the first one is not enough?

>

>

>

> ELENA VERANI

> Sustainability Consultant - LEED AP

> HILSON MORAN

>

> Members of the Italian, Emirates and U.S. Green Building Councils

>

> London:   +44 (0)20 7940 8888

> www.hilsonmoran.com <http://www.hilsonmoran.com/>

>

> Please consider the environment before printing this email.

>

> Registered No: 1233447 England. Registered Office: One Discovery Place,

> Columbus Drive, Southwood West, Farnborough, Hampshire GU14 0NZ

>

> This message is for the named person(s) use only and may contain

> confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No

> confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by erroneous

> transmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately

> delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies

> of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,

> disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are

> not the intended recipient. Hilson Moran Partnership Ltd reserves the

> right to monitor all email communications through its networks. Any

> views expressed in this message are those of the sender, except where

> the message specifically states them to be the views of Hilson Moran

> Partnership Ltd. All transmissions are checked for viruses but all

> recipients are advised to undertake their own virus checks as Hilson

> Moran Partnership Ltd will not take responsibility for any damage

> arising from virus infections.

>

>

> ______________________________________________________________________

> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.

> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email

> ______________________________________________________________________

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/fac89c67/attachment-0001.htm>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 5

> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:19:24 -0500

> From: "P. Hay" <phay at cwjamaica.com>

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

> To: "BLDG-SIM" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID: <000e01c971a4$7d098180$771c8480$@com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Hi all,

>

>

>

> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open

> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction

> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are

> more energy efficient because they have:

>

>

>

> a)      higher reflectances,

>

> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and

>

> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.

>

>

>

> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the

> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,

> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces

> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are

> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't

> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the

> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and

> cooling load of plenums are considered.

>

>

>

> Is there something I'm missing?

>

>

>

> Paul Hay

>

> Managing Partner

>

> PAUL HAY Consultants

>

>

>

> Capital Project Planning and Management

>

>

>

> 15a Cassia Park Road

>

> Kingston 10

>

> Jamaica, W.I.

>

>

>

> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

>

> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

>

>

> web: www.phcjamaica.com

>

> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

>

>

>

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/17244d8d/attachment-0001.htm>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 6

> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:29:42 -0500

> From: "P. Hay" <phay at cwjamaica.com>

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

> To: "BLDG-SIM" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID: <001c01c971a5$edd28870$c9779950$@com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> The study uses both: ducted return in open plenums and plenum return for

> suspended ceilings.

>

>

>

> Paul Hay

>

> Managing Partner

>

> PAUL HAY Consultants

>

>

>

> Capital Project Planning and Management

>

>

>

> 15a Cassia Park Road

>

> Kingston 10

>

> Jamaica, W.I.

>

>

>

> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

>

> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

>

>

> web: www.phcjamaica.com

>

> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> From: Steve Tobin [mailto:stobin at smithboucher.com]

> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:23 AM

> To: phay at phcjamaica.com

> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

>

>

>

> Does your model include ducted return or plenum return?  If it is ducted

> return the return air is pulled from the space and the light heat gain is

> less load for the AHU.  If you have a plenum return the full lighting load

> should be accounted for.

>

>

>

>

>

> Steve Tobin

>

> PROJECT ENGINEER

>

> 25501 west valley parkway

>

> olathe ks 66061

>

> direct 913 344.0061

>

> fax 913 345.0617

>

>

>

> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay

> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:19 AM

> To: BLDG-SIM

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

>

>

> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open

> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction

> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are

> more energy efficient because they have:

>

>

>

> a)      higher reflectances,

>

> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and

>

> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.

>

>

>

> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the

> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,

> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces

> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are

> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't

> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the

> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and

> cooling load of plenums are considered.

>

>

>

> Is there something I'm missing?

>

>

>

> Paul Hay

>

> Managing Partner

>

> PAUL HAY Consultants

>

>

>

> Capital Project Planning and Management

>

>

>

> 15a Cassia Park Road

>

> Kingston 10

>

> Jamaica, W.I.

>

>

>

> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

>

> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

>

>

> web: www.phcjamaica.com

>

> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

>

>

>

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/915e3f34/attachment-0001.htm>

> -------------- next part --------------

> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...

> Name: not available

> Type: image/jpeg

> Size: 1778 bytes

> Desc: not available

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/915e3f34/attachment-0001.jpeg>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 7

> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:40:07 -0500

> From: "James V. Dirkes II  P.E." <jvd2pe at tds.net>

> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

> To: <phay at phcjamaica.com>, "'BLDG-SIM'" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID: <AB6A3B78D7714E9CB32D4D93427ED85A at BPT>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Dear Paul,

>

> In theory, the return plenum is warmer than the occupied space, so the wall

> and, especially, roof loads do not affect the space in the same way.  This

> will give a warmer coil entering condition and resulting smaller coil,  fan,

> duct, motor, wiring, electrical service, etc.

>

> The ACTUAL difference will be small and may not be worth the additional

> analysis and load calculations.  You could argue that a VAV system will

> realize the benefits, since it will "see" the space load only and reduce

> volume to suit.

>

> Another consideration is whether the life cycle energy benefits outweigh the

> differential cost to install and maintain the suspended ceiling....  I

> suspect they do, but am uncertain re: ROI.

>

>

> The Building Performance Team

> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

> 1631 Acacia Drive NW

> Grand Rapids, MI 49504

> 616 450 8653

>

>

>

>

>

>   _____

>

> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay

> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:19 AM

> To: BLDG-SIM

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

>

>

> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open

> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction

> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are

> more energy efficient because they have:

>

>

>

> a)      higher reflectances,

>

> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and

>

> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.

>

>

>

> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the

> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,

> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces

> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are

> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't

> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the

> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and

> cooling load of plenums are considered.

>

>

>

> Is there something I'm missing?

>

>

>

> Paul Hay

>

> Managing Partner

>

> PAUL HAY Consultants

>

>

>

> Capital Project Planning and Management

>

>

>

> 15a Cassia Park Road

>

> Kingston 10

>

> Jamaica, W.I.

>

>

>

> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

>

> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

>

>

> web: www.phcjamaica.com

>

> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

>

>

>

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/e2814e94/attachment-0001.htm>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 8

> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:37:33 -0500

> From: "P. Hay" <phay at cwjamaica.com>

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW:  Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

> To: "BLDG-SIM" <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>

> Message-ID: <003d01c971c0$2baf5460$830dfd20$@com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Thanks James,

>

>

>

> I'm beginning to see how there could be a difference: especially since the

> office modeled does use a VAV system and the food store is a single storey

> building with 100,000 sq. ft roof.  It would seem that the roof loads have

> the greater influence because its energy costs savings are 30 - 40% greater

> than the 8-storey office building with 15,000 sq. ft. roof for four

> locations (including Orlando), and 70% higher for Charlotte.

>

>

>

> BTW, it is claimed that the life-cycle payback is between 5 - 11 years for

> the office, and 0.9 - 1.7 years for the food store.

>

>

>

> Paul Hay

>

> Managing Partner

>

> PAUL HAY Consultants

>

>

>

> Capital Project Planning and Management

>

>

>

> 15a Cassia Park Road

>

> Kingston 10

>

> Jamaica, W.I.

>

>

>

> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

>

> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

>

>

> web: www.phcjamaica.com

>

> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> From: James V. Dirkes II P.E. [mailto:jvd2pe at tds.net]

> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:40 AM

> To: phay at phcjamaica.com; 'BLDG-SIM'

> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

>

>

>

> Dear Paul,

>

>

>

> In theory, the return plenum is warmer than the occupied space, so the wall

> and, especially, roof loads do not affect the space in the same way.  This

> will give a warmer coil entering condition and resulting smaller coil,  fan,

> duct, motor, wiring, electrical service, etc.

>

>

>

> The ACTUAL difference will be small and may not be worth the additional

> analysis and load calculations.  You could argue that a VAV system will

> realize the benefits, since it will "see" the space load only and reduce

> volume to suit.

>

>

>

> Another consideration is whether the life cycle energy benefits outweigh the

> differential cost to install and maintain the suspended ceiling....  I

> suspect they do, but am uncertain re: ROI.

>

>

>

> The Building Performance Team

> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

> 1631 Acacia Drive NW

> Grand Rapids, MI 49504

> 616 450 8653

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>   _____

>

> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of P. Hay

> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:19 AM

> To: BLDG-SIM

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums

>

> Hi all,

>

>

>

> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of Suspended Ceilings vs. Open

> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior System Construction

> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that suspended ceilings are

> more energy efficient because they have:

>

>

>

> a)      higher reflectances,

>

> b)      better heat-removal from luminaires, and

>

> c)       use lower static pressure and fan power.

>

>

>

> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me suspicious that the

> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.  As I understand it,

> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones from the usable spaces

> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the suspended ceilings are

> adiabatic.  So , other than the savings for lighting and fan, I really don't

> understand how there could be significant savings for the HVAC system if the

> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable space) is identical, and

> cooling load of plenums are considered.

>

>

>

> Is there something I'm missing?

>

>

>

> Paul Hay

>

> Managing Partner

>

> PAUL HAY Consultants

>

>

>

> Capital Project Planning and Management

>

>

>

> 15a Cassia Park Road

>

> Kingston 10

>

> Jamaica, W.I.

>

>

>

> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274

>

> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631

>

>

>

> web: www.phcjamaica.com

>

> e-mail: paul.hay at phcjamaica.com

>

>

>

> -------------- next part --------------

> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/c295ae45/attachment-0001.htm>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> _______________________________________________

> Bldg-sim mailing list

> Bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

>

>

> End of Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 6

> ***************************************

>







------------------------------



Message: 2

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:30:46 -0600

From: "Edwin Lee" <leeed2001 at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Message-ID:

      <bce4945b0901081430j36737e8akb5e5547f6fdafde3 at mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



Alex:

Just want to comment on the dual core issue.  Multiple E+ runs work nicely

on a dual core machine (and would subsequently work with four on a quad

core).  I wrote a testing script that monitors each processor on the machine

while constantly running two different E+ instances.  When only one runs, my

machine (Lenovo laptop, 2GHz Intel Core Duo, 3GB RAM, XP Professional)

doesn't notice anything is happening.  When both processors fill up, the

machine does lag, but not that bad to where it completely halts.  The issue

that most people come across when wanting to improve E+ performance is that

it can't easily be applied to run a single simulation on multiple computers.

 In a program like Fluent, for instance, the CFD grid can be split, and each

processor can simulate its part, and only need to communicate at the

interfaces.  For a building simulation like E+, there isn't really a logical

way to split the data, since each piece of equipment may need to know

information from all sorts of other parts of the simulation.



Two pieces of advice:



If you can get your parametric study to run two simulations (two instances

of EnergyPlus.exe) concurrently, that should nearly double the performance

on a dual core/dual processor machine.



While you are debugging your model, make sure you only run a single design

day, and not any run periods.  If the design days come through without

problems, the run period is **likely** to not have any either.  (key is the

**'s)



Edwin Lee

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/2cd20c87/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 3

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:56:26 -0500

From: JRR <energy.wwind at cox.net>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems, Standard E+

      Machiine

To: alexc at 2rw.com, Building Simulation

      <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <4966849A.7090804 at cox.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



Hi;



One of the simplest ways to speed production runs is to get several

identical computers, install identical

copies of the desired software and perform "saw tooth" runs. In this

strategy the user moves down one

machine about every 5 minutes starting another run. After all of the

machines are running go back to the

first machine and wait for the results.As soon as the first machine is

finished, load it and go again.



Quite a while ago I had a flexy manufacturing class as part of my

master's degree program. The factory

simulation runs took a long time -- this was just as 486s were fading

and Pentium CPUs were taking off.

the runs took ~ 40 minutes so I got 8 machines in the computer lab early

in the morning on a Saturday. I

finished the projects in one morning. My classmates were crushing it all

week.



We are interested in establishing a "standard configuration"  PC for

efforts to speed up Energy Plus runs.

We are NOT interested in Equest, or TRACE, at this time.  We may have

some interest in Retscreen, Window 5.

The system will be based on an Intel OEM motherboard, Intel CPU, and

something that is not Vista.

Windows XP PRO is available to small OEMs through January 30 in the US.

SuSE Linux looks like a

good alternative. I have looked at the NVIDIA  Tesla board that plugs

into a PCIe x16 slot. That's

available retail at $1600 from Tigerdirect.com.   I don't want to create

a $10,000 PC however.

What is the feeling on the mailing list concerning speed vs cost ??  Is

a $2,000 PC OK?  $2,500 ??



One other feature we are looking at is providing Internet based training

for Energy Plus, and Technical

Support. Establishing a standard machine or say two levels of standard

machine, operating system, tools,

would greatly help the user community.





John R Ross III  PE

Westwind Corporation

Vienna, VA  22182-1958

energy.wwind at cox.net











------------------------------



Message: 4

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:44:49 +1030

From: Martin Belusko <Martin.Belusko at unisa.edu.au>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] high CWLT chiller performance curves

To: "'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'"

      <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID:

      <175241C47FF8E141A7AC2637D952A66D02CAC97E08 at ITUPC-EX1MBOX.UniNet.unisa.edu.au>



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Hi



I am looking for some chiller performance curves at elevated evaporator temperatures for chilled ceiling systems in commercial buildings.  Manufacturers provide data up to 9 deg. C exit temperatures but not up to 15 deg. C.  Ideally COP values at different evaporator, condenser and load would be ideal for a water cooled chiller.



Regards



Dr. Martin Belusko

Research Engineer

Sustainable Energy Centre

University of South Australia

ph: +61 8 8302 3767

fx: +61 8 8302 3380





-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/a9603792/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 5

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:18:08 -0600

From: xiao dongyi <xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <BAY136-W559FE78D433F40890040B5C2DC0 at phx.gbl>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"





Hi,



I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:



ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The baseline building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?



Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,



Dongyi

_________________________________________________________________

Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/b5bab6b9/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 6

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:14:20 -0500

From: "James V. Dirkes II  P.E." <jvd2pe at tds.net>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: <xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>, <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <18F53F2665A14A4CB5628907DCEE9A1D at BPT>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Good question!  My guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm.  Since they are

required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it won't affect energy

adversely.



There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have you checked with

them?





The Building Performance Team

James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

1631 Acacia Drive NW

Grand Rapids, MI 49504

616 450 8653











  _____



From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of xiao dongyi

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power





Hi,



I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in

ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:



ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The baseline

building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled water pumping

system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does

the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I

need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?



Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,



Dongyi





  _____



Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.

<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012

009>

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/c1ee3561/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 7

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:52:02 -0500

From: William Bahnfleth <wbahnfleth at psu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: "James V. Dirkes II  P.E."

      <jvd2pe at tds.net>,<xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>,

      <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <ENGREMAILF2tPrPrvCW0000031c at engremailf2.engr.psu.edu>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/c6ce894a/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 8

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:12:29 -0800

From: "Lam, Linda" <linda.lam at wspfk.com>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] Is Garage Lighting a Regulated Process Load?

To: <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID:

      <5F662BF0C1928242BF324F3EE6C27D1431544D at exc01sfo1us.FKUSA.ORG>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



Dear Bldg-sim



Is the lighting in an uncovered and unconditioned parking garage considered a process load? Where does it say that?



In terms of App G of ASHRAE 90.1 and LEED, does "regulated" refer to terms that are explicitly discussed in the standard? Since the standard states that exterior lighitng for Unconvered Parking Areas is limited 0.15 W/sf in Table 9.4.5, does that mean lighting in a parking lot is "regulated"?



In general I'm looking for documentation of definitions for "Process Loads" and "Regulated" and "Unregulated" according to LEED...



Thank you in advance!

Happy New Year!

Linda





Linda Lam, LEED?? AP

WSP Flack + Kurtz

405 Howard Street, Suite 500

San Francisco, CA 94105

Direct: 415.402.5813

Main Tel: 415.398.3833

Fax: 415.433.5311

website: http://www.wspfk.com

vCard: http://vcards.wspfk.com/vcardloader.php?filename=flackkurtz-linda-lam-wspfk-com-1227040073.vcf

image: <http://vcards.wspfk.com/usercard.php?filename=flackkurtz-linda-lam-wspfk-com-1227040073.png>



-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/eb8452ad/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 9

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:19:32 -0500

From: "James V. Dirkes II  P.E." <jvd2pe at tds.net>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: "'William Bahnfleth'" <wbahnfleth at psu.edu>,

      <xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>,     <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <F40F00FD588D495DB1E458546BF454A7 at BPT>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Dear Bill,



I don't think I follow your logic.  If the total plant head (primary plus

secondary) is ~100 ft., and assuming that water flow is about the same for

both primary and secondary, then your calcs indicate that 22W is a

reasonable number for the pumping system efficiency.



This is essentially the same scenario that I intended to use below.  The

primary side would use, say, 30ft of head and the secondary side would use

~70ft.  If the total head is greater than that, it (obviously) becomes

tougher to comply with 22W / gpm.



That said, I haven't modeled a System #7 or 8 per Appendix G yet, so I'm

just hypothesizing!



p.s., I think it will be tough to get a combined wire-water efficiency of

85%!



The Building Performance Team

James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

1631 Acacia Drive NW

Grand Rapids, MI 49504

616 450 8653











  _____



From: William Bahnfleth [mailto:wbahnfleth at psu.edu]

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM

To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com;

bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power





I sincerely doubt it.



A fairly typical total pump head for plant and distribution for a

primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft.  (Note, I am not saying that

is GOOD practice, but it is typical.  One can generally do better.)



Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and drive is ~85%.



If we use the common engineering approximation HP = (Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and

given that 1 HP =  745.7 W, the power associated with 1 gpm and 100 ft wg

head is



W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15



I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44 W/gpm could be

construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.



Bill Bahnfleth



At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II  P.E. wrote:





Good question!  My guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm.  Since they are

required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it won't affect energy

adversely.



There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have you checked with

them?







The Building Performance Team

James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

1631 Acacia Drive NW

Grand Rapids, MI 49504

616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =

"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />













  _____



From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [

<mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>

mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of xiao dongyi

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power



Hi,



I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in

ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:



ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The baseline

building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled water pumping

system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does

the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I

need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?



Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,



Dongyi





  _____



Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. See

<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012

009> how it works.

_______________________________________________

Bldg-sim mailing list

http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to

BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG





__________



William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE

Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director, Indoor Environment

Center



Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA 16802 USA

voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:  wbahnfleth at psu.edu

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/ ,

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec



It is better to know less than to know so much that ain't so. - Josh

Billings

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090108/6b8dbaa1/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 10

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:30:30 -0700

From: "Ellis, Peter" <Peter_Ellis at nrel.gov>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] IBPSA-USA Chicago Meeting Announcement

To: <ibpsausa at onebuilding.org>, <bldg-sim at onebuilding.org>,

      <tc47-l at onebuilding.org>

Message-ID:

      <C468F8F9013C3440B9DCC8273A8FE13F0C59DA7A at mail-1a.nrel.gov>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"





Please excuse the cross-postings...





Sorry for the later-than-usual announcement.  Please note all RSVPs should go to Shanta Tucker at shanta.tucker at atelierten.com this time.  Thanks.







                                 IBPSA-USA

          International Building Performance Simulation Association

                               USA Affiliate



             IBPSA-USA invites you to join us in Chicago

                        for our Winter 2008 meeting!





                       IBPSA-USA MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT

                      Dinner RSVP requested (see below)

                     4:00 PM, Saturday, January 24, 2009

                              Chicago, Illinois



Location:           Meeting (4:00-6:00) at:

                      Palmer House Hilton (Buckingham Room, 1st Floor)

                      17 East Monroe Street

                      Chicago, Illinois



                    Social hour, dinner, and talk (6:00-9:00) at:

                      The Berghoff Restaurant

                      17 West Adams

                      Chicago, Illinois



4:00 PM - 6:00 PM   Meeting

                    4:00-4:30 Student Poster Presentations

                    4:30-5:00 Software Demo Presentations

                    5:00-6:00 Posters and demos (free format)



6:00 PM - 7:00 PM   Social hour with cash bar



7:00 PM             Dinner (cost $40)



8:00 PM (approx)    After-dinner talk:

                    Jeff Boyer

                    Smith-Hill Architecture





Reservations:  To make a reservation contact Shanta Tucker

<shanta.tucker at atelierten.com> via email by January 12, 2009, 5 PM

(EST).

Confirmation of reservations will be sent via email (if you do not

receive a confirmation within two business days, please resend your

reservation request).



For the latest information about IBPSA-USA, please visit our web site:

http://www.ibpsa.us <https://owa1.nrel.gov/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.ibpsa.us>



We look forward to seeing you there!



Jeff Haberl                               Shanta Tucker

President, IBPSA-USA                      Secretary, IBPSA-USA







------------------------------



Message: 11

Date: Fri,  9 Jan 2009 12:01:44 +0000

From: M F A Ramadan <M.Fahmy at sheffield.ac.uk>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] Fwd: Problems in compiling the weather data files

      of    IBPSA

To: "bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org" <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <1231502504.49673ca80ce40 at webmail.shef.ac.uk>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1





Dear all:



I am facing problems in writing the inner data within the weather file.



Finally, It is easy to write the generated or measured data into a text file

then it is also easy to convert it into epw or even wea. But there seem some

errors within the original conversion from the original epw into text (csv)

which i started with to write in.  Consequently all the conversions later made

in the opposite direction from csv to epw conclude epw with inner writing

errors.

This appear in the DesignBuilder or even in the ECOTECT.





The issue is what is the correct format with appropriate headers of the

location

long and lat, ....etc. So that the later conversions should read from any

package that uses epw or wea.  Can you gide to some one who is expert in such

data files issues?



One of the problems that i found in DB, it doesn't accept any no. of days in

the

year 2002, i tried to delete the extra days once and twice but it didn't work.





A help would be appreciated.



Best regards,

Mohamad.





----- End forwarded message -----









------------------------------



Message: 12

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:55:11 -0500

From: "Itzhak Maor" <imaor at pwienergy.com>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: "William Bahnfleth" <wbahnfleth at psu.edu>,   "James V. Dirkes II

      P.E." <jvd2pe at tds.net>, <xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>,

      <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID:

      <6E919C3471BAF441B0BADA552D96AAF02B0469 at pwi-sbs.lan.pwienergy.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Hello Bill



You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and Secondary pumping.

The assumption that used to derive this number is total head of 75'.



Thanks



Itzhak





Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M

Manager, Energy Efficiency Services



Global Workplace Solutions

Building Efficiency | Energy Services



Johnson Controls, Inc.

1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 | Philadelphia, PA 19103



Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113



Cell: (215) 767-4582







Itzhak.Maor at jci.com <mailto:Colleen.T.Sarfino at jci.com>  |

www.JohnsonControls.com <http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/>











cid:971061017 at 30102008-281C<outbind://15-000000004E71BADBD6E622488B444AB

CBE1B51C307006E919C3471BAF441B0BADA552D96AAF000000000940C0000FD24401A791

0EF4D91981847834ED2F700000BF30E570000/cid:image001.gif at 01C93A94.0603E860

>



Please note my new email address, effective November 1st (and useable in

the interim).







________________________________



From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of William

Bahnfleth

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM

To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com;

bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power





I sincerely doubt it.



A fairly typical total pump head for plant and distribution for a

primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft.  (Note, I am not saying

that is GOOD practice, but it is typical.  One can generally do better.)



Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and drive is ~85%.



If we use the common engineering approximation HP = (Q*H)/(3960*eta_t),

and given that 1 HP =  745.7 W, the power associated with 1 gpm and 100

ft wg head is



W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15



I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44 W/gpm could be

construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.



Bill Bahnfleth



At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II  P.E. wrote:





      Good question!  My guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm.

Since they are required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it

won't affect energy adversely.



      There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have you

checked with them?







      The Building Performance Team

      James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

      1631 Acacia Drive NW

      Grand Rapids, MI 49504

      616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =

"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />













________________________________



      From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [

mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

<mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> ] On Behalf Of xiao

dongyi

      Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM

      To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

      Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power



      Hi,



      I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power

calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:



      ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The

baseline building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled

water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule

apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump,

or both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary

pump?



      Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.



      Thanks,



      Dongyi





________________________________



      Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it works.

<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks

_012009>

      _______________________________________________

      Bldg-sim mailing list



http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

      To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to

BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG





__________



William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE

Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director, Indoor Environment

Center



Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA 16802 USA

voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:  wbahnfleth at psu.edu

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/ ,

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec



It is better to know less than to know so much that ain't so. - Josh

Billings

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/79b3c9da/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 13

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:01:43 -0500

From: "Crawley, Drury" <Drury.Crawley at ee.doe.gov>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Fwd: Problems in compiling the weather data

      files of IBPSA

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Message-ID:

      <4B55C0CF3DB1354A9524C7D455EE6D4901618203 at HQGTNEVS-04.doe.local>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



The format for the weather data and what each variable means within the

EPW file is given in the EnergyPlus Auxiliary Programs document

(available from the EnergyPlus web site).  This includes the ranges

expected for each variable. The CSV created by the EnergyPlus Weather

Converter has column headings for the hourly data where the EPW does

not.





-----Original Message-----

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of M F A

Ramadan

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:02 AM

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Bldg-sim] Fwd: Problems in compiling the weather data files of

IBPSA





Dear all:



I am facing problems in writing the inner data within the weather file.



Finally, It is easy to write the generated or measured data into a text

file then it is also easy to convert it into epw or even wea. But there

seem some errors within the original conversion from the original epw

into text (csv) which i started with to write in.  Consequently all the

conversions later made in the opposite direction from csv to epw

conclude epw with inner writing errors.

This appear in the DesignBuilder or even in the ECOTECT.





The issue is what is the correct format with appropriate headers of the

location long and lat, ....etc. So that the later conversions should

read from any package that uses epw or wea.  Can you gide to some one

who is expert in such data files issues?



One of the problems that i found in DB, it doesn't accept any no. of

days in the year 2002, i tried to delete the extra days once and twice

but it didn't work.





A help would be appreciated.



Best regards,

Mohamad.





----- End forwarded message -----





_______________________________________________

Bldg-sim mailing list

http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to

BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG









------------------------------



Message: 14

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:28:10 -0800

From: "Peter Simmonds" <peter.simmonds at ibece.net>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] high CWLT chiller performance curves

To: "Martin Belusko" <Martin.Belusko at unisa.edu.au>,

      <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID:

      <B9A3AA6F98276B4EB15DECA51DB7F8510140C605 at smain07.IBECE07.local>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Martin, let me try and understand your question a little better.



For different evaporator leaving temperatures you could simply contact

the manufacturers or as many have simply map the chiller as a

traditional Carnot cycle and deduce the efficiency from the

calculations.



I wrote a paper in 93 which is published in ASHRAE transactions dealing

with chilled beams and chiller efficiencies associated with running

chillers at say 13C-15C.



The only problem in the real world is that we often require at least 6C

for air handling units and to have a dedicated chiller for chilled

ceilings is a little extravagant. We usually run the chillers at 6C, but

at variable speed with of course variable evaporator flow. Bungane

Melamakulu and I wrote a paper on chiller efficiency for the IBPSA

conference in Colorado.



I do not wish this reply to seem as many replies that we have done this

before, but does this answer you question?







Peter Simmonds Ph.D.

Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group



IBE Consulting Engineers

14130 Riverside Drive Suite 201

Sherman Oaks, CA 91423

p:   (818) 377-8220 ext. 246

f:    (818) 377-8230

m:  (818) 219-1284



This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of

the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged

information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution

is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the

sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message







________________________________



From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Martin

Belusko

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:15 PM

To: 'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'

Subject: [Bldg-sim] high CWLT chiller performance curves







Hi







I am looking for some chiller performance curves at elevated evaporator

temperatures for chilled ceiling systems in commercial buildings.

Manufacturers provide data up to 9 deg. C exit temperatures but not up

to 15 deg. C.  Ideally COP values at different evaporator, condenser and

load would be ideal for a water cooled chiller.







Regards







Dr. Martin Belusko



Research Engineer



Sustainable Energy Centre



University of South Australia



ph: +61 8 8302 3767



fx: +61 8 8302 3380











-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/a5003bd8/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 15

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:36:11 -0600

From: xiao dongyi <xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: <imaor at pwienergy.com>, <wbahnfleth at psu.edu>, <jvd2pe at tds.net>,

      <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <BAY136-W4307E4E008A5767262164CC2DD0 at phx.gbl>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"





Hi Itzhak,



If that is the assumption used to derive the 22 W/gpm, then how should I divide it between the primary and secondary pump?Thanks,



Dongyi







Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump powerDate: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:55:11 -0500From: imaor at pwienergy.comTo: wbahnfleth at psu.edu; jvd2pe at tds.net; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Hello Bill



You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and Secondary pumping. The assumption that used to derive this number is total head of 75'.



Thanks



Itzhak





Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M Manager, Energy Efficiency Services

Global Workplace Solutions Building Efficiency | Energy Services

Johnson Controls, Inc. 1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 | Philadelphia, PA 19103

Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113

Cell: (215) 767-4582



Itzhak.Maor at jci.com | www.JohnsonControls.com



Please note my new email address, effective November 1st (and useable in the interim).







From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of William BahnflethSent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PMTo: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.orgSubject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

I sincerely doubt it.A fairly typical total pump head for plant and distribution for a primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft.  (Note, I am not saying that is GOOD practice, but it is typical.  One can generally do better.)Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and drive is ~85%.If we use the common engineering approximation HP = (Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and given that 1 HP =  745.7 W, the power associated with 1 gpm and 100 ft wg head isW = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44 W/gpm could be construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.Bill BahnflethAt 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II  P.E. wrote:

Good question!  My guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm.  Since they are required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it won't affect energy adversely. There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have you checked with them?

The Building Performance TeamJames V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP1631 Acacia Drive NWGrand Rapids, MI 49504616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [ mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of xiao dongyiSent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PMTo: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.orgSubject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump powerHi, I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G: ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The baseline building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump? Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dongyi



Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. See how it works. _______________________________________________Bldg-sim mailing listhttp://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.orgTo unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG

__________

William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE

Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director, Indoor Environment Center

Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA 16802 USA

voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:  wbahnfleth at psu.edu

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/ , http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iecIt is better to know less than to know so much that ain?t so. - Josh Billings

_________________________________________________________________

Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.

http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/12ab6f4f/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 16

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:34:44 -0700

From: "Zhuolun Chen" <chenzhuolun at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: "Itzhak Maor" <imaor at pwienergy.com>,  "William Bahnfleth"

      <wbahnfleth at psu.edu>,   "James V. Dirkes II  P.E." <jvd2pe at tds.net>,

      <xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>,     <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <BLU133-DS75A5BD1B91202438EEF23B0DD0 at phx.gbl>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



Hi, Itzhak

I want to know that if the 22 w/gpm is the total of primary and secondary pumping, how can I divide  this total value into the two system? Is there a factor or something I can use?



ZL Chen





From: Itzhak Maor

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:55 AM

To: William Bahnfleth ; James V. Dirkes II P.E. ; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com ; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power





Hello Bill



You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and Secondary pumping. The assumption that used to derive this number is total head of 75'.



Thanks



Itzhak



Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M

Manager, Energy Efficiency Services



Global Workplace Solutions

Building Efficiency | Energy Services



Johnson Controls, Inc.

1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 | Philadelphia, PA 19103



Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113



Cell: (215) 767-4582







Itzhak.Maor at jci.com | www.JohnsonControls.com













Please note my new email address, effective November 1st (and useable in the interim).











--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of William Bahnfleth

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM

To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power





I sincerely doubt it.



A fairly typical total pump head for plant and distribution for a primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft.  (Note, I am not saying that is GOOD practice, but it is typical.  One can generally do better.)



Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and drive is ~85%.



If we use the common engineering approximation HP = (Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and given that 1 HP =  745.7 W, the power associated with 1 gpm and 100 ft wg head is



W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15



I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44 W/gpm could be construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.



Bill Bahnfleth



At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II  P.E. wrote:



  Good question!  My guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm.  Since they are required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it won't affect energy adversely.



  There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have you checked with them?







  The Building Performance Team

  James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

  1631 Acacia Drive NW

  Grand Rapids, MI 49504

  616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />













------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [ mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of xiao dongyi

  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM

  To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

  Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power



  Hi,



  I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:



  ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The baseline building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?



  Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.



  Thanks,



  Dongyi





------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.

  _______________________________________________

  Bldg-sim mailing list

  http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

  To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG





__________





William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE

Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director, Indoor Environment Center





Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA 16802 USA

voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:  wbahnfleth at psu.edu

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/ , http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec



It is better to know less than to know so much that ain?t so. - Josh Billings





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





_______________________________________________

Bldg-sim mailing list

http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/abb74b2b/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 17

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:13:37 -0700

From: Kendra Tupper <ktupper at rmi.org>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] Lab ACH Setback with Packaged Single Zone Systems

To: <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>,

      <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org.>

Message-ID: <C58CD3D1.4BC1%ktupper at rmi.org>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



I am modeling a lab spaces for LEED, and the 90.1-2004 Baseline system is a

Packaged Single Zone. The lab spaces have 12 ACH during occupied periods,

and 6 ACH during unoccupied periods.



Using eQUEST, I cannot seem to get the supply airflow to vary between 12 and

6 ACH. I have fume hood exhaust schedules which control the OA flow rates,

and these are both varying between occupied and unoccupied hours.  I have

specified my Min Flow Ratio to 0.5 at the system level, set my Min ACH to 6

at the zone level, and assigned a Min Flow Schedule to the zone level

airflow that matches that of the fume hood exhaust schedule.



I have been outputting hourly variable to check how the  system is

performing and right now my supply air is constant at 12 ACH, while the OA

and EA varies between  6 and 12. Is there anyway to get the supply airflow

to vary on a PSZ?



I was able to get this to work in another model with a Reheat Fan System

that was serving multiple zones, but it doesn?t seem right to change the

system type.



Thank you,



--

Kendra Tupper

Senior Consultant

Rocky Mountain Institute

Built Environment Team

www.rmi.org



1820 Folsom Street

Boulder, CO 80302



Direct: 303-567-8641

Main: 303-245-1003

Fax: 303-245-7213









-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/df0ebf0c/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 18

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:58:59 -0500

From: "Crawley, Drury" <Drury.Crawley at ee.doe.gov>

Subject: [Bldg-sim] New Interfaces and Standard 140-2007 Testing

      Reports for EnergyPlus

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Message-ID:

      <4B55C0CF3DB1354A9524C7D455EE6D490161824A at HQGTNEVS-04.doe.local>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Links to two new interfaces for EnergyPlus are now posted on the

EnergyPlus web site:



*     Easy EnergyPlus (Chinese language interface)

*     EnergyPlugged (AutoCAD plug-in to create and edit EnergyPlus

input files).



Information on these and the other interfaces and tools is available

here:

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/interfaces_tools.cfm

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/ep_input_creation.cfm





The reports documenting the testing of EnergyPlus have been updated to

EnergyPlus Version 3.0 and are now available here:

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/testing.cfm



These include ASHRAE Standard 140-2007 (envelope, HVAC CE100-200,

CE300-545, and HE100-230), ASHRAE research project 1052, and two other

test suites developed by the EnergyPlus team for HVAC components and

global energy balance.



EnergyPlus Team

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/255770cc/attachment-0001.htm>



------------------------------



Message: 19

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:23:18 -0500

From: "James V. Dirkes II  P.E." <jvd2pe at tds.net>

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

To: <xiaodongyi at hotmail.com>, <imaor at pwienergy.com>,

      <wbahnfleth at psu.edu>,   <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>

Message-ID: <F2D64C423BDE47BAAE73EACBBF338F16 at BPT>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Dear Dongyi,



I assign the actual flow (gpm or m3/s) and an equivalent head that results

in the ASHRAE pump power limit.  I've attached a spreadsheet which helps do

that for you more easily.



Note that I use EPlus and it assigns a fixed pump efficiency.  You'll have

to figure that out for your software.....





The Building Performance Team

James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

1631 Acacia Drive NW

Grand Rapids, MI 49504

616 450 8653











  _____



From: xiao dongyi [mailto:xiaodongyi at hotmail.com]

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:36 AM

To: imaor at pwienergy.com; wbahnfleth at psu.edu; jvd2pe at tds.net;

bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power





Hi Itzhak,



If that is the assumption used to derive the 22 W/gpm, then how should I

divide it between the primary and secondary pump?



Thanks,



Dongyi





  _____





Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:55:11 -0500

From: imaor at pwienergy.com

To: wbahnfleth at psu.edu; jvd2pe at tds.net; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com;

bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org







Hello Bill



You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and Secondary pumping. The

assumption that used to derive this number is total head of 75'.



Thanks



Itzhak





Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M

Manager, Energy Efficiency Services



Global Workplace Solutions

Building Efficiency | Energy Services



Johnson Controls, Inc.

1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 | Philadelphia, PA 19103



Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113



Cell: (215) 767-4582







Itzhak.Maor at jci.com | www.JohnsonControls.com









 cid:971061017 at 30102008-281C

<http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_safe.gif>



Please note my new email address, effective November 1st (and useable in the

interim).







  _____



From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org

[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of William

Bahnfleth

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM

To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi at hotmail.com;

bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power





I sincerely doubt it.



A fairly typical total pump head for plant and distribution for a

primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft.  (Note, I am not saying that

is GOOD practice, but it is typical.  One can generally do better.)



Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and drive is ~85%.



If we use the common engineering approximation HP = (Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and

given that 1 HP =  745.7 W, the power associated with 1 gpm and 100 ft wg

head is



W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15



I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44 W/gpm could be

construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.



Bill Bahnfleth



At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II  P.E. wrote:





Good question!  My guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm.  Since they are

required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it won't affect energy

adversely.



There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have you checked with

them?







The Building Performance Team

James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP

1631 Acacia Drive NW

Grand Rapids, MI 49504

616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =

"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />













  _____



From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [

mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of xiao dongyi

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM

To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power



Hi,



I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in

ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:



ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The baseline

building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled water pumping

system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does

the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I

need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?



Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,



Dongyi





  _____



Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.

_______________________________________________

Bldg-sim mailing list

http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org

To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to

BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG





__________



William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE

Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director, Indoor Environment

Center



Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA 16802 USA

voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:  wbahnfleth at psu.edu

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/ ,

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec



It is better to know less than to know so much that ain't so. - Josh

Billings



  _____



Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.

<http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009>

-------------- next part --------------

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/c81789a9/attachment.htm>

-------------- next part --------------

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...

Name: PumpPower for 90_1.xls

Type: application/vnd.ms-excel

Size: 19456 bytes

Desc: not available

URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/c81789a9/attachment.xls>



------------------------------



_______________________________________________

Bldg-sim mailing list

Bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org





End of Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7

***************************************

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/7c4f0459/attachment-0002.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 5903 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090109/7c4f0459/attachment-0002.jpg>


More information about the Bldg-sim mailing list