[Bldg-sim] Simulation of Central Plant for LEED 2.2 EA C1

[Matutinovic, Luka]

Clark,
 
I believe the document you are looking for is here:
http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=4176
 
Let me see if I understand your question correctly: you're not certain what energy rate to apply to the steam or hot water used by the new building since there isn't another example of a hot water or steam plant in the state from which to obtain rates?  If that's the case, you don't need to look for rates.  As Seth pointed out and as far as I know you only need to find the local rate for whatever fuel the CEP is using to generate hot water or steam.  If they are using oil, then the local oil rate (likely the commercial rate, not the residential one) would apply. Ultimately, the CEP is consuming some type of fuel to generate thermal energy and the building is modelled as also consuming the same fuel.  I believe the intent of this methodology is to prevent any skewing of results that might arise from the CEP's abilities to use economies of scale to offer lower rates, or conversely charge premiums for capital investment and maintenance.  This ensures that only the efficiency of the building, the CEP and the distribution systems factors into the EAc1 calculation.
 
I hope that answers your question.
 
Cheers,
Luka
 
Luka Matutinovic, B.A.Sc., LEED® AP

 
T. 416.644.0649

F. 416.487.9766  
Toll Free 1.888.425.7255
www.halsall.com 

HALSALL ASSOCIATES LTD. 
Toronto  Richmond Hill  Ottawa  Sudbury 
Burlington  Calgary  Vancouver  Dubai 

'50 Best Workplaces in Canada' 
2009 Globe and Mail
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

 

________________________________

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org on behalf of Clark Denson
Sent: Fri 02/10/2009 5:02 PM
To: Seth P. Spangler; Karen Walkerman; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Simulation of Central Plant for LEED 2.2 EA C1



I've been interested in the topic of District Thermal Energy treatment, as well.  

 

My question concerns Step 1 (Building stand-alone scenario):  In a campus setting like a hospital, new buildings are typically served by an existing CEP, and yet the new building is not charged a rate for CHW or HW.  The USGBC guidance indicates that in this case, "local market rates as explained in the LEED v2.2 Reference Guide" should be used.  However, I have not found this data to be readily accessible, nor have I found guidance in the LEED Reference Guide.  In my most recent project in Florida, I've been able to find District Chilled Water plants close to the project site, but it is my understanding that there is not a single District Hot Water or Steam Plant in the entire state!

 

What do I do in this case?  And where in the LEED Reference Guide is the "Treatment" referring to?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Clark Denson

 

From: Seth P. Spangler [mailto:sspangle at rmf.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:44 PM
To: Karen Walkerman; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Simulation of Central Plant for LEED 2.2 EA C1

 

Karen,

 

I gave a presentation on this subject  with a member from USGBC and this exact question was brought up. The answer was to use the local rate for both systems. LEED/ASHRAE require that the energy rate be the same for both the baseline and proposed designs. Fuel and electricity rates are assigned using the local utility rate schedules as they would normally apply to the building and using the normal ASHRAE and LEED modeling rules. This line while a little ambiguous means that you should use the rate that would be applied to the building if it was not connected to the plant, not the discounted rate that the plant most likely receives. 

 

Thanks

 

Seth Spangler, LEED® AP 

Project Engineer

 

RMF Engineering, Inc 

Ph: (843) 971-9639 ext:1497

Fax: (843) 971-9641 

sspangle at rmf.com

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Karen Walkerman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:21 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Simulation of Central Plant for LEED 2.2 EA C1

 

Hi All,

I'm completing a model of a building that is heated by a central campus steam plant for LEED NC 2.2 EA P1 and C1.  I've followed the guidelines in "Required Treatment of District Thermal Energy in LEED NC 2.2 and LEED for Schools" dated May 28, 2008.

I'm doing pretty well, but I'm a bit confused by the following paragraph (page 8 under the heading: Energy Model Implementation - Energy rates)

Step 2 (Aggregate Building / DES scenario) - in this modeling scenario the DES-supplied energy is not
modeled as cost-neutral purchased energy, and thus purchased DES rates (chilled water, steam, hot
water) are ignored. Fuel and electricity rates are assigned using the local utility rate schedules as they
would normally apply to the building and using the normal ASHRAE and LEED modeling rules. For
the Baseline Building the rates are applied to the code-compliant heating or cooling plant as instructed
in Appendix G, and for the Proposed Building the rates are applied to the virtual plant according to the
actual energy sources used in the upstream DES (electricity, gas, oil, etc.).

They are a bit unclear...

If the central plant burns #6 oil, do you use the local rate for #6 oil for the proposed system and the local rate for home heating oil for the baseline?

OR

do you use the local rate for home heating oil for both?

Has anyone submitted one of these projects yet?

Thanks for your help.

--
Karen

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20091005/6d242b84/attachment-0001.htm>